CSX3016 - Which car is really "it"...?

[moore_rb]

I have a question regarding the "infamous" pair of cars that both claim to be CSX3016... I have read several old articles and forum posts that popped up when the silver car first hit the Internet, but the official SAAC position regarding this car is not fully understood.

So, which car does the SAAC Registry officially "endorse" as CSX3016? Is it the blue car featured in the famous video with Anthony Boosalis?, or the Silver car that was offered at auction several years back...?

or, are neither of these cars considered by SAAC to be CSX3016?

Are there any other CSX numbers that are similarly "claimed" to be attributed more than one physical automobile?

Just curious...

[twobjshelbys]

Puhlezze... Again?

Is the only thing this place can do is rehash stuff time and time again?

Prey tell, what new information do you think will come of this?

It's starting to feel like Ground Hog's Day movie.

[moore_rb]

What "again"...? If you know the answer, then why not offer it? instead of firing up the flame-thrower? It's not like I really care one way or the other - I stated clearly (or so I thought) that I was just curious...

Thanks for your prompt, but utterly uninformative reply.


I read every past post about this car in this forum, and on the SAAC forum.

From what I've read, I can conclude that either:

A) CSX3016 is (or was) owned by Anthony Boosalis (as recently 2007) and was painted blue, or

B) a "different" CSX3016 was restored to Sebring Silver on the New York several years AFTER the Boosalis video was shot, or

C) The Blue car in the Anthony Boosalis video is the same car as the silver car that was offered in 2014 at the Kissimee auction... But is not the same car that was offered by Exotic classics back in 2009...

D) CSX3016 is actually still a scrapped frame sitting beneath an old ford drag car body in some overgrown backlot out in BFE, or

E) CSX3016 was destroyed in the Bob Grossman wreck, and is not considered salvageable


All I'm asking is: Which one is it?

[twobjshelbys]

The answer is whatever you want it to be. Troll.

The real answer is that no new information will be found here. Move along.

This is not perry mason. Noone is going to come along, especially on this place (the world's most biased cobra site), and make a dying confession. Get a life.

[moore_rb]

All I did was ask a question.

Without responding to the question with anything of substance, you posted TWO replies which cleared up none of my confusion, yet imposed some self righteous dribble about whether I was even ENTITLED to ask the question in the first place?...

and yet, I'm the troll...?

Got it. I'm the troll.... yeah.

Congratulations - I now have ZERO interest in understanding whether there are 2, 5, or 50 CSX3016's floating around out there...

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Move along.

....

Get a life.

Thanks - good advice - I think I'll do both... Since it seems that trying to learn more about some of the most collectible cars in the world is a pointless waste of time...


While I move along, and get a life, Why don't YOU go read this again:

Respect, Respect, Respect!!!

[mrmustang]

CLICK HERE

Read Carefully.


It is that easy

Originally Posted by moore_rb

I have a question regarding the "infamous" pair of cars that both claim to be CSX3016... I have read several old articles and forum posts that popped up when the silver car first hit the Internet, but the official SAAC position regarding this car is not fully understood.

So, which car does the SAAC Registry officially "endorse" as CSX3016? Is it the blue car featured in the famous video with Anthony Boosalis?, or the Silver car that was offered at auction several years back...?

or, are neither of these cars considered by SAAC to be CSX3016?

Are there any other CSX numbers that are similarly "claimed" to be attributed more than one physical automobile?

Just curious...

[moore_rb]

Yes, I read all those posts. The posts from Ned Scudder, and LMH cleared up much of my confusion, except for my original question (which I guess I didn't state clearly enough)

My question is: Is the Silver car that was offered in Syosset in 2013 , and offered again by Mecum in Kissimee 2014, the same physical car as the blue one that was featured in the Anthony Boosalis video from 2007?


That is such a monumentally simple question, that it boggles me that someone would fire up the flame-thrower over the fact that I dared to ask it.

I know -- it's utterly stupid of me to even ask for clarification regarding the anthology of an automobile with a suspicious history (actually, CSX3016 has a very clearly documented history to me- It was destroyed in a wreck in the rain during a race at Watkins Glen, and was dismantled and parted out after that.- That should be the end of the story on that car (IMHO )

and honestly, I don't need an answer about this NEW anthology with the car (or cars), because as I stated before, I don't really care; but this CSX3016 story reads like a crime novel that jumps from chapter9 (Anthony Boosalis shoots a video with a Blue Cobra he calls CSX3016) to chapter11 (Some dealer in NY offers a Silver car for sale in New York that he calls CSX3016)...

All I needed was a minor clarification on whether chapter 10 in the story involved the blue car from the video travelling from California to New York, and being re-painted silver?

That's it. I wasn't asking for drama. I wasn't asking if anyone committed fraud, I wasn't asking for "Perry Mason" or "Groundhog day", and I sure as hell wasn't asking to be called a troll by some pompous "gentleman" in Las Vegas who decided that I should just "Accept that there is no Chapter 10, the novel was written without chapter 10 on purpose - and you're an idiot for asking questions about it"

[1985 CCX]

Same car..............

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Same car..............

Thank you... I appreciate that.

This thread provided me some crystalline insight into why several of the other members of my local club choose not to participate in the main forums on this website...

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Puhlezze... Again?

Is the only thing this place can do is rehash stuff time and time again?

Prey tell, what new information do you think will come of this?

It's starting to feel like Ground Hog's Day movie.

Dos-shelby,

Why so wound up?
Are you working too hard?
Anything I can do to help?
I think you owe yourself some R&R?

Ps. You may have missed our new friend's Clubcobra registration date... Perhaps offer him the benefit of doubt in this one...

Take care sir!

[CobraAddict]

Just reading this string and it seems that 'twobjshelbys' has a severve bloody attitude problem or maybe just a huge chip on his shoulder. Perhaps he is the owner of the diogy car, who knows!?!?

Either way your attitude to this guys 'simple query' sucks. I think you need to have a chat with yourself and dig deep to find some manners !!

[sunman]

So now that’s it’s way in the future does anybody know what happened to Clem Hoppe? He owned the King Cobra and disappeared....Party On Wyatt

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by CobraAddict

Just reading this string and it seems that 'twobjshelbys' has a severve bloody attitude problem or maybe just a huge chip on his shoulder. Perhaps he is the owner of the diogy car, who knows!?!?

Either way your attitude to this guys 'simple query' sucks. I think you need to have a chat with yourself and dig deep to find some manners !!

See post #7 in this thread, yes, it is that simple. Ned, the SAAC registrar pretty much laid it out for you. No reason to resurrect any further, long dormant thread on the subject

[moore_rb]

WOW - Old thread.

This one probably needs a capstone post to wrap it up, so that future visitors (or new spectators into the now-legendary saga that is CSX3016) can start off on more solid footing than I did when I started this thread ten thousand years ago:

1) CSX3016 was wrecked/mangled/destroyed during a race at Watkins Glen in 1966- This is historical FACT. Much of the mangled car was parted out and the remains of the original chassis disappeared (yet have been rumored to remain somewhere in the eastern United States) after a brief second-life in racing with an antique Ford body; and although there are claims that the 3016 chassis (and a fully documented trail of ownership back to Bob Grossman) are still in private ownership, the chassis, and these corraborating documents, have yet to surface publicly.

2) The car that is the subject of this thread is the same car (painted Blue and white) featured in the popular youtube video (at the time it was owned by Anthony Bousalis) - This car has had a sketchy trip through the Shelby registry- At one time, this car was prominently believed not to be CSX3016, but CSX3106. when the actual 3106 surfaced (with all it's legal paperwork) this car's front shock tower (either magically, or mysteriously) and its California title both suddenly began displaying CSX3016. in about 2010-ish, the car was painted Silver (to match CSX3016's Sebring race livery)


That's where the story stands today- the complete, silver livery car featured all over the Internet, and traced back through Anthony Bousalis via the youtube video is widely believed NOT to be the same CSX3016 that was wrecked by Bob Grossman at Watkins Glen. Someday, the chassis of the actual car wrecked by Grossman might see the light of day again, but it has been a LONG wait up until now.

Is the Silver/Anthony video car a forgery? That is a legal question that will only be determined (or never determined) by a judge. Was there fraud committed in the re-badging and re-papering of this car? Again: That's a legal question. Only case-history will answer it.

Is it a very fascinating story? Yes, it sure is... But there are a large number of "totally and completely destroyed" Original CSX2xxx and CSX3xxx Cobras out there that somehow look pretty amazing today, as they run around racetracks in Europe, or swapping hands in premium auctions in the United States. A lot of people refer to these cars as "restored" , while some of us think more of them as sunk-cost exercises in the automotive equivalent of taxidermy- There's nothing "real or original" there except the 3-dimensional image of a Shelby Cobra.... Like the plastic Marlin hanging on your wall- It never swam in the open sea, and it isn't the fish that took you 2 hours to land off the coast of Cabo.... That fish is gone....

Bob Grossman wrapped it around a tree in 1966.



**Postscript**

To anyone motivated to respond to this thread due to the "energetic" exchange between 2bjshelbys and myself- you should all be advised that this thread was opened by me when my experience with Shelby Cobras (and their history) was very young and undeveloped.... and true, 2bjshelby's responses were not exactly "warming" to the new guy on the forum, but you will all be pleased to hear that Tony and I kissed and made up a long time ago.. metaphorically speaking, of course.

He's no more of an arrogant jerk than I am, so what this thread memorializes is really nothing more than a classic "pot versus kettle" situation...

Enjoy the read, enjoy the banter, and be fully aware that no actual animals were harmed during the filming of this motion picture....

[CobraAddict]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

See post #7 in this thread, yes, it is that simple. Ned, the SAAC registrar pretty much laid it out for you. No reason to resurrect any further, long dormant thread on the subject

What...so it has been discussed before then never shall anyone mention this topic again OOooooooohhhhh. Come on...!!?!? So the guy did not do an 'exhaustive search' of prior threads on the topic before he wrote his query.
Is it some sort of open wound, an ugly truth in the dark pages of Cobra history.

For god sake lighten up, try to be civil on a public forum and be nice to people who show an interest in our passion. You never know he may have the car next to you in the next club fun run.

Or if thats impossioble for you then better to keep quiet and just ignore the post.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by CobraAddict

What...so it has been discussed before then never shall anyone mention this topic again OOooooooohhhhh. Come on...!!?!? So the guy did not do an 'exhaustive search' of prior threads on the topic before he wrote his query.
Is it some sort of open wound, an ugly truth in the dark pages of Cobra history.

For god sake lighten up, try to be civil on a public forum and be nice to people who show an interest in our passion. You never know he may have the car next to you in the next club fun run.

Or if thats impossioble for you then better to keep quiet and just ignore the post.

I have lightened up, compared to my cranky past, what I was getting at was the resurrection of two long dormant threads, where you, the inquisitive poster, could have easily started a new, fresh thread, with links to the old ones for reference. A little time and effort on your part, where the old thread may contain posts from people no longer with us, or items were posted and taken our of context as the OP has already stated elsewhere. See #3 in THIS POST Once again, sad, but true.

Other than a reason for the old threads to be dormant, from what I understand, there is quite a bit known in the background, it is being held there, as the parties involved do not want it in the public realm.

I'll leave it at that.

Bill S.

[CobraAddict]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

I have lightened up, compared to my cranky past, what I was getting at was the resurrection of two long dormant threads, where you, the inquisitive poster, could have easily started a new, fresh thread, with links to the old ones for reference. A little time and effort on your part, where the old thread may contain posts from people no longer with us, or items were posted and taken our of context as the OP has already stated elsewhere. See #3 in THIS POST Once again, sad, but true.

Other than a reason for the old threads to be dormant, from what I understand, there is quite a bit known in the background, it is being held there, as the parties involved do not want it in the public realm.

I'll leave it at that.

Bill S.

Glad to hear although I shudder at the thought of what your "cranky past" must have been like

Just to be clear I was not the original poster although after reading this I did jump onto my 4th Ed SAAC register to have a read. Yes controversial to say the least and if still active I can certainly understand the stakes at play and the desire to move it on as I shall do now.

Best of luck with your new 'lightened up self'

Regs from Oz

[sunman]

Did not sell for $1.7 million in 2014 and did not sell for $550k in 2019. Nice ride. Great craftsmanship. You sure can waste a lot of time googling chassis numbers

[Buzz]

People in this hobby take themselves and these cars way too seriously. Yes - the cars are awesome and iconic and all that, and I suppose it might be fun to pretend to be part of the guardianship of some big closed-society secret; but to feel the need to discourage discussion about one of the more telling and interesting controversies involving Cobras is just ridiculous.

What obligations do any (and I mean ANY) of us here on this discussion forum have to be all hush hush to others about someone's desperate attempt to secure a dubious legacy for their cobbled-together Cobra? This is a HOBBY, g--dammit and anyone here should be free to discuss and speculate about the provenance of any car they choose.

Good luck to the owners of the two CSX3016 wannabes ( and whoever may own the wreckage of the real car if it even exists anymore) but it's no more than a very interesting story about a wrecked car and some people's attempt to cash in on it's legacy! Big friggin' deal!

These are my thoughts - anyone else?