CSX2201 and later charging system components

[Dan Case]

CSX2201 later 12V charging system. Most of this applies to street roadsters. Does not inlcude CSX3xxx chassis. Does not include COB60xx and COX60xx chassis. Does not inlcude COB61xx or COX61xx chassis.
For general information, subject matter from multiple posts and threads is being condensed into one post.


The Original Equipment Manufacturer (O.E.M.) assembly used in new Cobra street and race cars chassis CSX2201 and later would probably not have not been something anybody was likely to pick up locally as a service part at any time 1963 onward. Ford didn’t use many alternator based charging systems before their widespread use starting for the 1965 model year and the model used with new Cobras was a very rare version even when new. I would strongly suspect that any other version on any car after it left Shelby American was installed by somebody besides Shelby American. In addition to Cobras CSX2201 and later street and race a few complete engines sold by Shelby American also included them; including at least one engine for one of the Sunbeam LeMans Tigers.


From my electrical system components notes on CSX2201 and later cars:
Assembly, Alternator, 1964 model year design created for a specific high performance 427 c.i.d. engine Mercury and Ford charging system option package that included transistorized ignition.

FoMoCo® C3MF-10300-A, GL-23, 40 amp. New assemblies were ink stamped with identification, rating, and date of manufacture details. The Ford service assembly was available and marked under the number C3MY-10346-A. Ford documentation lists it for a 1964 Mercury 427 c.i.d. engine option package but they also was available in a 427 powered Ford Galaxie option package; includes the fan and sheave assembly C3MF-10344-A (C3MY-10344-A was the Ford fan and sheave assembly service part number), Autolite® GP-351 by 1966. Hunting information on how many 427 powered Mercury and Ford sedans there were in the 1964 model year has not been very successful. Ford sedan wise, based on what little is posted on the website for 427 Galaxie owners, only early 1964 model year 427 engine equipped cars ordered with transistorized ignition built around December 1963 used this alternator assembly. A subsequent running production change for 427 Galaxies led to the introduction of another alternator assembly. Genuine Cobra production period alternators, the ones found on unrestored substantially unmodified cars since the early 1980s, have sheave and fan assemblies different than the known 427 Ford 1964 model year production sheave and fan assemblies and those subassemblies in service alternators or alone as loose service parts. There was at least one version of service sheave and fan assembly not marked with an engineering number. The details that make the assemblies fitted to most if not all CSX2201 and later Cobras unique are believed due to the choice of subcontract machine shop chosen to make the sheave and fan assemblies. Could 427 Ford specification sheave and fan assemblies have been installed in a new Cobra’s alternator, yes that is possible I just haven’t confirmed any on a substantially unrestored and unmodified Cobras.


The May 31, 1965 Shelby service parts list has entrees for both the production and service units (no Thunderbird units are listed):

C3MF-10300-A Alternator Ford $59.29 retail $32.61 dealer (Cobra production assembly)

C3MY-10346-A Alternator Ford $59.35 retail $37.54 dealer (Ford service assembly)

The December 23, 1966 Shelby service parts list only has the Ford service assembly units (no Thunderbird units are listed) listed:

C3MY-10346-A Alternator Ford $58.30 retail

The aluminum case shells or housings were produced in permanent die casting molds. Appearance wise, Cobra production alternator assemblies had exterior case shell surfaces right out of molds. Any other case shell exterior surface condition, steel shot or some other hard media blasted, tumbled with abrasive media, strong chemical etching, or combinations of any exterior condition (for example let’s say front case as cast and rear case shot blasted) are indicative of typical service parts. Many of the brand new 1963 model year alternator assemblies I have held in my hands came out of boxes from one of the Ford authorized remanufacturers. The implication is that the Ford authorized remanufacturers had stocks of individual parts and they assembled whatever they needed to fill an order from Ford. Different rebuilders often used different case rework procedures and new small parts that may or may not have been like originals to make up complete assemblies. Once the as die cast exterior is changed it can't be reworked to look day one again, not 100%.

AC Cars Ltd supplied the cast steel alloy mounting bracket and pressed steel v-belt adjusting arm, both painted black. Some of the fasteners used in the installation were Ford production parts, the most notable because they are so visible being the heavy duty flat washer and odd length hex cap bolt used with the v-belt adjustment slide arrangement. The AC Cars supplied mounting system places the belt sheave in line with the 1963-64 Ford 260/289 water pump and crankshaft mounted sheaves. 1965 and later model year Ford sheaves won’t line up properly with the alternator.


Ford 15 volt negative ground voltage regulators were used in CSX2201 and later Cobras to go with the Ford alternator, but not just one. Production started with one model and ended with another.


Voltage Regulator (special heavy duty)
FoMoCo® C3XF-10316-C early production (highest chassis number that I know of currently was CSX2384)
FoMoCo® C4TF-10316-D late production (lowest chassis number that I know of currently was CSX2437)

British Wiring supplied by AC Cars w/Lucas component terminations:
Long integral pigtails in plastic tube protective sheaths for each head lamp. It is very likely that Lucas manufactured these lamp and long wire loom assemblies custom for AC Cars. (Cobra only)

Long integral pigtails in plastic tube protective sheaths for each front turn/park lamp. It is very likely that Lucas manufactured these lamp and long wire loom assemblies custom for AC Cars. (Cobra only)

Cloth wrapped power (white w/blue dashed spiral trace) supply to turn signal switch. (Cobra only, I suspect that AC Cars provided this assembly.)

American Wiring supplied by FoMoCo / Essex Wire / W&G:
The three largest Ford wire looms for a CSX2201 and later street cars have been commercially reproduced by more than one source. A few of the jumper looms were reproduced after I wanted some for CSX2551 and provided drawings. Ford supplied looms wise there were:

Under dash, with FoMoCo® marked fuse block and instrument wiring. Looms identified with a FoMoCo/Essex Wire tape label wrap. (XB-954435 Cobra only)

Engine bay, with connections for front light looms. Looms identified with a FoMoCo/Essex Wire tape label wrap. (XB-954434 Cobra only)

Fire wall rearward, with connections for tag and tail lamp looms. Looms identified with a FoMoCo/Essex Wire tape label wrap. (XB-954431 Cobra only)

Two each, one for each horn, horn power wires with male Lucas plug on one end and male Ford plug with same W&G maker’s marks as other Cobra-Ford pieces on the other, connects Ford wiring to Lucas connections inside horn assemblies. (Cobra only)

Two each, one for each horn, horn ground wires with male Lucas plug on one end and female Ford ¼ inch ring terminal on the other, connects Lucas connections inside horn assemblies to the car chassis via one of the horn fixing bolts. (Cobra only)

One for the tag lamp, single Ford male plug for power and Ford ring terminal for grounding at the chassis end and two solder on male Lucas plugs inside the Lucas 467 tag lamp assembly indentified only with W&G logo in male terminal over mold. (Cobra only)

Two each to connect the Ford engine bay harness to the Lucas head lamp wiring. (Cobra only)

Two each short looms to connect the Ford chassis loom to the tail lamps. (modified Ford ACD-66603, Cobra only)

A left front marker/turn signal lamp jumper Ford to Lucas wiring identified only with W&G logo in male terminal over mold. (Cobra only)

A right front marker/turn signal lamp jumper Ford to Lucas wiring identified only with W&G logo in male terminal over mold. (Cobra only)

Bonding (ground wire) between tachometer and speedometer mounting clamps. (Cobra only)

Lucas windshield wiper switch to Ford harness #1, three wire gang. (Cobra only)

Lucas windshield wiper switch to Ford harness #2, three wire gang. (Cobra only)

Heater feed. Branched heater circuit, one path has minimal resistance and one path has about 2 ohm more resistance. The fast motor speed power runs through the low resistance path and the slow motor speed power runs through the specific resistance wire path. The Dellany-Gallay made heater assembly blower motor has a power wire and a ground wire. These wires plug into the branched heater circuit loom assembly. The ground wire in the loom attaches to the same chassis point behind the dash fascia as the main instrument panel loom with a pan head chrome plated slotted sheet metal screw. (“S1CS-18627 Wiring Assy., Heater Feed Jumper No. XB 955313 ESSEX FORD”, Cobra only)

Radiator cooling fan loom. (Cobra only)

Tachometer sender to tachometer loom identified only with W&G logo in make terminal over molds.(Cobra only)

Positive battery cable. C4DF-14300-A FOMOCO (Ford production part.)

Negative battery cable. C2OF-14301-C SX FOMOCO (Ford production part.)

Starter cable with protective sheath. (looks like a Ford production part but so far I have not found one with the same length dimensions

Engine/transmission ground (at transmission mount bracket) wire. Modified FDD-14303-A SX FoMoCo/Essex Wire (Ford production part made by Essex Wire®, modified for Cobra use – large ring terminal hole enlarged enough for one of the transmission mount bolts to pass through) One end fixed in place with transmission mount hex cap bolt and the other by a “Q” hex cap screw (same as many valve covers after the mid CSX23xx range and same as foot box mounted throttle system bracket screws.

American Wiring by Shelby American:
Production shop made, looks ‘home made’ connecting the lead in Ford/Essex engine bay loom to windshield washer fluid pump. Fabricated by or for Shelby American from wire stock and crimp on terminals. Being hand made as required significant variations in details have been observed. (When Ford engineered the XB-954434 engine bay wire loom AC Cars was installing Lucas windscreen washer reservoirs and pump assemblies high on the left hand inner wheel house panel. The new FoMoCo wiring system was designed with a power feed for a windscreen jet pump in the same place late CSX21xx through CSX2200 chassis used them. By the time CSX2201 and later cars got built a Ford reservoir and a Ford pump were mounted down lower on that same wheel house inner panel. The result was the Ford wiring power feed for the fluid pump was way too short and engine installers had to install jumper leads between Ford harness terminations and the Ford fluid pumps. (Cobra only)

Wire Loom Fixing Note:
Even though most of the wiring in a CSX2201 and later car was designed and provided by Ford Motor Company the majority but one of the bulkhead grommets, screws, flat washers, clamps, clips, and metal ties used to secure wiring to various chassis structures were British in origin. There is one significant exception. The “Engine bay, with connections for front light looms. Looms identified with a FoMoCo/Essex Wire tape label wrap. (XB-954434 Cobra only)” loom described above was fixed to engine bay opening tubes and upper fire wall with high gloss black molded Nylon® or similar plastic cable clamps. Investigation, comparison, and analysis of original “Cobra” clamps and a standard Ford sedan clamps tell me that the “Cobra” part was made as a standard Ford part and then modified for Cobra use. I still don’t know the Ford part number but the typical junk yard Ford clamp and the typical used original Cobra clamp are dimensionally the same except for the screw holes in them. The Ford part has a rather small screw hole in its tang. The Cobra part either has a large hole or an odd slot for a fixing screw. My analysis indicates that standard Ford clamps, which had molded in screw holes, were hand modified into Cobra clamps. The tell tale evidence in Cobra parts indicates that manual punch and button set were used to create larger screw holes where the small one had been. Because the punching was manual the exact center location of the new big hole was not always where the Ford small hole was. In some cases the rework ended up making off slots with part of the slot the Ford hole diameter and part of the slot the Cobra hole size.

[Riverside racer]

Thank you for taking the trouble to give such a detailed reply,Dan.
I for one appreciate it
Ross

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by Riverside racer

Thank you for taking the trouble to give such a detailed reply,Dan.
I for one appreciate it
Ross

You are welcome.

[CompClassics]

Dan,
Did you find any info on pre-1965 Lincolns as they were also available with alternators as well.
I'll see if I can get some numbers for you regarding those applications. The pulley on the Lincoln units were obviously different from the Cobra application. Bob Manel's excellent book about the small block Ford outlines Fords use of alternators from the inception of the small block throughout the 1960s-1970s.

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Dan,
Did you find any info on pre-1965 Lincolns as they were also available with alternators as well.

Mercury and Ford used various Ford and other brand alternators 1963-64 for select high end option packages in several automobile and truck model lines. Most of the Ford designs service assemblies and service parts I see floating around have Thunderbird based service part numbers. None of the other brands have anything to do with Cobras. Ford made versions, and there were several, shared many components. Service rotors, stators, brushes, brush holders, circuit boards, and back end shaft bearings are not hard to find yet.

If someone is interested, check ebay® offerings as Ford distributed a 1963 set of identification and service books to dealers and copies are frequently offered for sale. Also out there but harder to find is the Ford Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) that covers 1963-64 alternators. TSBs are very rare because most dealers threw them away at some point in time.

The only trick to thoroughly servicing the 1963-64 alternators is the press on sheave and fan assembly. Ford provided a tool to dealers that allowed a mechanic to remove the sheave and fan without significant damage. I couldn’t find a Ford tool for sale decades ago so I designed a similar one. I designed my version so it would not damage the sheave bore or shaft end or even the paint anywhere easy to see.

[Mark IV]

Dan,

You can still get the tool from several suppliers, they are also used for some power steering pulleys.

The "1G" (first generation) alternator became standard on the 1963 Thunderbird and Lincoln cars and was phased in to the Galaxie/Mercury Hi-Po cars for 1964. Prior to that Ford used Leece-Neville alternators as options on police/ambulance, etc. applications where more power was required and the generator systems could not supply at the lower RPM ranges.

There actually were a batch of 1962 T-Birds built late in the year as "alternator try-out units" as marked on the assembly ROT sheets.

[LMH]

My local AutoZone had a tool for loan for removing the pulley. Took it right off so I could rebuilt the alternator.

I think I have one of those TSB booklets. I'll check later when I get home.
Larry

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Dan,

You can still get the tool from several suppliers, they are also used for some power steering pulleys.

Before the Internet it wasn't as easy to find lots of things. The rise of DIY/loaner tools auto parts stores also made tools easier to access.

[LMH]

Dan, do you know the part number for the Ford starter used on the HP289?
Is it the standard Fairlane unit?
Larry

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by LMH

Dan, do you know the part number for the Ford starter used on the HP289?
Is it the standard Fairlane unit?
Larry

I have never heard anybody indicate that starters were any different. My black car came with a C3OF-11001-A assembly dated 3JD.

[LMH]

Thanks Dan!
Larry

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by LMH

Thanks Dan!
Larry

You are most welcome.

[Tom Kirkham]

Do you know which alternators were used on the Alan Mann Rally Falcons and Tour deFrance Mustangs?

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by Tom Kirkham

Do you know which alternators were used on the Alan Mann Rally Falcons and Tour deFrance Mustangs?

Sorry, no.

[CompClassics]

Here is a photo of the part numbers for the 1963 Thunderbird (left column) and the Lincoln Continental (right column. These are for 1963 only, all other Ford and Mercurys list HA or Lance Nivel alternators as optional. I'll try to get to the 1964 part numbers for the same tomorrow.

[jolsen42]

Are these stamped Autolite or FoMoCo?

John O

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Here is a photo of the part numbers for the 1963 Thunderbird (left column) and the Lincoln Continental (right column. These are for 1963 only, all other Ford and Mercurys list HA or Lance Nivel alternators as optional. I'll try to get to the 1964 part numbers for the same tomorrow.

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by jolsen42

Are these stamped Autolite or FoMoCo?

John O

When the cars were new, FoMoCo. This is one of the Thunderbird units NOS right out of the box opened the first time for a picture.

[Mark IV]

Thanks Dan. Now I can have the correct stamp made!

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Thanks Dan. Now I can have the correct stamp made!

You are welcome. If Cobra alternators are like most other CSX2201 and later electrical parts American or British most were probably made in batches in 1963 with very few production dates. If dated in 1964 I would expect first quarter 1964 as parts were collected to complete what SAI considered the "1965" cars.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Thanks Dan. Now I can have the correct stamp made!

You're not going to make the C3SF stamp, are you?
I have one if you are.
Larry