Looking for Authenticity How far to go?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

I have never seen someone spew so much BS as "RodKnock", I'll call it "CSX envy". The guy goes out and buys one of the more expensive reproductions because why?! He already admits that he has been drawn to Cobras and GT40s since he was a kid, now he says it's because of the shape?! Why do you brag that you have a "Shelby" engine block?! Why didn't you buy one of the other makes of engine blocks?! The guy wants to bash anyone and everyone that is interested in real Cobras or the details of a real Cobras that they might want to incorporate into their own builds. Every time someone brings the subject up he's on top of them like everyone has to believe or do as he does, this is an individuals hobby and for some a business. Your talking about "ROI", your in the wrong hobby!

RodKnock, your quote....

"As I said, if your build makes you happy, then that's wonderful."

Why don't you quit hassling people and let them do as they like, just because you didn't doesn't mean they shouldn't!
By the way someone that has over 9000 post needs to spend more time at the gym and less on the keyboard!

Must have hit a nerve there somewhere?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Oh, no.
Now you did it.
You had to mention gym (or fitness or health) to Rodknock?!?!
God help us.

Technically, I don't belong to a "gym." I only used that terminology for "you" layfolk who occasionally (or not) hit up the local Planet Fitness.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Your talking about "ROI", your in the wrong hobby!

As an owner of a business that caters to Cobras, of course you don't want to discuss ROI. You're not an impartial jury member on the matter of spending money on Cobra replicas. Whether you spend $50,000 or $150,000, what you get back in $$$ when it comes time to sell is important. Whether it's you or your heirs.

So when the OP or anyone else for that matter asks how far to go on authenticity of his or her Cobra replica, then IMO, money is a major factor. The OP should know that there are few(er) buyers out there, when it comes to resale of his or her "authentic" replica. As I said, the majority of Cobra replica buyers just want a cool car. That's why some buyers won't wait 2 years for their ERA and why BDR and SPF sell more replicas than any other manufacturer. Facts matter!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Why do you brag that you have a "Shelby" engine block?! Why didn't you buy one of the other makes of engine blocks?!

Simple. There were only two new alloy blocks available when Tom Lucas of FE Specialties built my engine 11+ years ago. Pond or Shelby. My Cobra had a 50/50 chance of getting one or the other. Tom preferred the Shelby block. I wrote a check.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Simple. There were only two new alloy blocks available when Tom Lucas of FE Specialties built my engine 11+ years ago. Pond or Shelby. My Cobra had a 50/50 chance of getting one or the other. Tom preferred the Shelby block. I wrote a check.

Well that makes me feel even more better about my truly original iron block.

[rodneym]

One thing I've learned about this Cobra hobby is that you have to have pretty thick skin if you're gonna be happy.

No matter how high up the replica ladder you go, there's always assholes and opinions. I was at the Shelby show a couple weeks ago at Shelby, Gardena.
I heard a "prominent" Shelby person (no, not Lynn Park) say to another, "A nice one, not like one of those" pointing to a less than original replica.

How about owning an ally CSX4/6, dressed to the 9's (good and accurate as can be), only to overhear a guy wearing a club jacket, "The owner drives that thing likes it's a real one."

Or what if you did own a CSX2 or CSX3 and overheard, "It's over done", or "Now it looks fake", "He ruined it", et al. Of course, never to the owner's face. That would take balls. And the balls of most of these opinionaters shriveled decades ago.

Everyone's Cobra is a manifestation of what they want and what they can afford or willing to spend. Show my any Cobra and I'll tell you what's important to the owner.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Well that makes me feel even more better about my truly original iron block.

I didn't want a boat anchor in my Cobra.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

That's why some buyers won't wait 2 years for their ERA and why BDR and SPF sell more replicas than any other manufacturer. Facts matter!

BDR and SPF sell more than FFR? FFR claims they're #1, but perhaps that's their cleverly worded phrase "the world’s largest manufacturer of "build-it-yourself" component car kits."

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

BDR and SPF sell more than FFR? FFR claims they're #1, but perhaps that's their cleverly worded phrase "the world’s largest manufacturer of "build-it-yourself" component car kits."

Oops, I missed FFR. That's my error. Thanks!

My point was that many of today's Cobra replica buyers trend away from the concept of "authenticity" of their Cobra.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

One thing I've learned about this Cobra hobby is that you have to have pretty thick skin if you're gonna be happy.

No matter how high up the replica ladder you go, there's always assholes and opinions. I was at the Shelby show a couple weeks ago at Shelby, Gardena.
I heard a "prominent" Shelby person (no, not Lynn Park) say to another, "A nice one, not like one of those" pointing to a less than original replica.

How about owning an ally CSX4/6, dressed to the 9's (good and accurate as can be), only to overhear a guy wearing a club jacket, "The owner drives that thing likes it's a real one."

Or what if you did own a CSX2 or CSX3 and overheard, "It's over done", or "Now it looks fake", "He ruined it", et al. Of course, never to the owner's face. That would take balls. And the balls of most of these opinionaters shriveled decades ago.

Everyone's Cobra is a manifestation of what they want and what they can afford or willing to spend. Show my any Cobra and I'll tell you what's important to the owner.

So, in the not-so-distant past, I overheard an SPF owner tell another Cobra replica owner that their SPF was more "authentic," because his SPF was Shelby authorized.

[rodneym]

Rodknock,
Got that one beat. At said show I overheard, "It's one of the original........replicas."
See, now I'm doing it!

BTW, John, I still gotta come down and see that shop of yours!

[hinoonaz]

I have not read all the posts recently. Opinion here, KMP is the most beautiful and marvelous engineered Cobra to reflect original look. Not original but better. I don't care what my FF5 goes for when I can't drive it anymore. The third engine and by far the best. I am surprised the 4000 and 6000 Shelby are real Cobra's argument has not started or has it? 51,000 plus miles and now that I am retired a lot more. Thanks AC and Shelby. By the way I had a Porsche 356 Cabriolet (yellow) winner at Pebble Beach in late 60's. It can certainly get anal about originality at times. GAry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Rodknock,
Got that one beat. At said show I overheard, "It's one of the original........replicas."

OK, you win. But I don't think the "air of superiority" that I was talking up thread is limited to any one particular replica manufacturer. I'm just saying pomposity knows no bounds, in terms of Cobra replicas. And there can be, but not always, a statistical correlation between authenticity of one's Cobra replica and delusional behavior.

[CompClassics]

RodKnock,

I don't believe I said anything to the OP about my products or what I could provide to him. The only thing I suggested to the OP is that he choose a path that satisfies his reason for building his Cobra, nothing more. I also gave him an example of the path I chose as a reference, nothing more. This was the kind of information that original OP had been asking during his first post. For you to think that I was trying to pedal my products to the OP is pure BS.
From what I can tell about your responses to the OP and past responses to others on this forum that have brought up similar discussions is that you are afraid someone is going to have a better car, I won't call it a Cobra because you don't believe yours is a Cobra, than you have or will have because of your own beliefs.
ROI, there will always be Cobras that command a premium when put up for sale but this is a hobby and to expect a profit may be letting yourself down when the time comes to sell it. Calling people that go the extra mile to have original details arrogant is BS!
By the way I have clients lined up to purchase an aluminum bodied, 4000, 6000 or 7000 Series Cobra, they simply are not out there and my clients do not want to wait 2+ years to order a new One.

[peterpjb]

it's pretty easy...
we all admire the original cobra, the original is the one and only true ideal we are heading for

for those who can't or won't afford an original one, a tool room copy is the next best thing,
those who can't or won't afford a tool room copy are heading for the next best thing to the next best thing and so on....each to his own

but to be honest there is rather no alternative for the authenticity way and even a crappy lookalike body shape is a step on the authenticity ladder

[crendonman427sc]

Hi Guys,

Well its been only one week since I posted the thread and have got some really interesting comments and observations.


Since my post things have moved on and the latest spec is:


Original 289 HIPO Block and Cast Iron Heads, (which will be stroked to 331ci).

I dropped the idea of an Original Alloy Bellhousing in favour of a QuickTime equivalent which will take either a 5 bolt narrow or 6 Bolt wide Transmission Bolt arrangement.

I prefer to keep my legs in one piece, if possible.

The transmission remains open but once again, I will probably go for a TKO 600 so the authenticity has completely gone out of the window.

RodKnock is quite correct when he says that ROI is not part of the equation.

For me (and I refer to my original post), would like to achieve a visually accurate period correct car, but not at any cost.

I believe therefore, that a well built, fairly accurate ERA will be acceptable with some modern additions.

I have read about spanners and screwdrivers in toolkits, Shelley LJ22 Jacks, period wiring looms etc, etc which some guys are doing and whilst I respect them for that, it doesn't float my particular boat.

All I would like is to drive a fairly accurate rendition, of a 289FIA, for others to appreciate a ''nice car'' and be happy with it!

Enjoy your cars guys

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

RodKnock, I don't believe I said anything to the OP about my products or what I could provide to him.

ROI, there will always be Cobras that command a premium when put up for sale but this is a hobby and to expect a profit may be letting yourself down when the time comes to sell it. Calling people that go the extra mile to have original details arrogant is BS!

And I said, and I’ll repeat it, as a business owner, a business that builds Cobra replicas, you’re not an impartial judge of ROI. Simple as that. You make money by selling more detailed Cobras. The more detailed, the more labor and parts sold. Of course, ROI isn’t important to you, but it’s important to others. You have an inherent bias on the topic.

As for calling some (not all) of those Cobra replica owners who build detailed “authentic replicas” arrogant, well, “I call them as I see them.” They’re out there, because I’ve seen them and met them. Call it BS, but that’s my personal experience. Seems it’s Rodneym’s experience as well.

Lastly, as for the concept of replicas selling for a “premium,” it’s more like trying to get some or most of your original investment back in most cases. Replica owners aren’t rolling in profits unless they bought their cars 10 years ago and now rollers are far more expensive.

[RodKnock]

To illustrate my point of ROI, recently these two CSX's were posted on ClubCobra.

The first CSX, CSX4158, is an alloy bodied replica that is currently listed at $190,000. I don't think it will sell for anywhere near $190,000, because it's a "salvage/flood" car, but $190,000-$200,000 is roughly the higher end of "ask" prices on alloy bodied CSX's. Some may ask more, some may ask less.

If you buy an alloy CSX roller for $160,000-$165,000, which may be an outdated price, add an engine, trans and detail it to the 9's, make it a true "authentic" replica, a buyer's cost will be WAY WAY over $200,000. In fact, the cost of such a car will probably approach $250,000 all in. Well, if your cost is $250,000 and your sales price is $200,000 at best, then you lose $50,000. That's not a great ROI. Negative in fact.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...x/2112904.html

Now here's a fiberglass CSX, CSX 4753, recently posted here on ClubCobra. From various comments, the car needed some minor tweaks, but overall a nice complete running car, especially for the Buy It Now price of $99,XXX. Last I heard, fiberglass CSX rollers were $110,000-$115,000. That's not a good ROI, negative again, at least if that was the original buyer, which it probably wasn't.

CSX 4000 on Ebay

Not all of us are Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg, so some of us watch our sheckels. Agree, disagree, I don't care, but that's the real world IMO. Nearly everyone here, including the OP, has a budget because we worry about the ROI when it comes time to sell.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

...worry about the ROI when it comes time to sell.

What? Me worry. Naaah, I plan on passing her on to my heirs. ROI is of absolutely no interest to me whatsoever.

[peterpjb]

Rodknock, I think you don't have any idea about replicas or toolroom copys, a csx 4/6/7/8000 is not automatically a replica, there is something more to do, and its not even necessary to have the csx vin for that (but nice to have for sure), perfect replicas especially with FIA HTP are north of 300k (€) in Europe