Engine Mounted Mechanical Fuel Pumps Through CSX2125

[Dan Case]

If you own or have access to an unrestored, substantially as built, with its original engine, and original engine mounted fuel pump car before CSX2126 we (me mostly but others are interested and helping) would like you to help add data and pictures to a database. We are working to collect data on the pump’s manufacturer, casting numbers as applicable, casting dates as applicable, assembly dates, finishes, and fittings. Real good pictures of the installation in the car would be great to have also. Maybe you know where an original engine with fuel pump still attached is sitting in storage or on display.

Don’t have a car or access now, did you manage to take some pictures of the fuel pump area on these cars decades ago?

The intent is to add to the open source Cobra engine notes and slide shows I share with owners and restorers. If you have information or pictures but don’t want them public, that works for me as long as I may add your casting or assembly dates to the known ranges without tying them to you or a specific car.

Thanks in advance for any information you may add to the collection. Send me a private message through this site if you wish to make contact.

Dan

[Robert Beede]

Early Cobra Owners: As you know, Dan Case is an extraordinary individual, and a fantastic documentor of Cobra history. For those of us who really care about what REALLY happened with Shelby, AC, and the assembly of these now-historic cars, Dan rates super high in my book. Dan and I recently conversed about the model of mechnical fuel pump originally installed in the worm and sector Cobras. I provided him photo documentation to support my hypothesis that the 6423 model (an AC number; Ford had their own C20Z number, but we are not really sure who actually MADE these pumps) was the only readily available pump available through Ford that would fit into the confined cavity created by the upright support for the Bishop Steer Cam and Peg steering box. I have owned my car since December of 1967. I am the second owner, and kept contact with the original owner until his passing. When my original 6423 model pump started to leak back in the late 60’s, I tried every other pump sold at the time to fit that hole. I could not find one, especially one provided by Ford. So, NOW Dan and I would like to know if YOUR car, providing it still HAS the original pump on the car, or on the shelf, had the 6423 model pump. We are also interested in whether or not it has any casting letters on it. It might have AC, BC, H, or even nothing cast into the top tower (just look down over the fender and you should see the letter if it has one) as well as on the bottom cap that attaches to the fuel line. We KNOW the rack and pinion cars switched to Carter pumps. We are specifically interested in how many of you can help out by telling us what your EARLY worm and Sector Cobra came with. You may even have a picture of the engine compartment of a W&S Cobra that you once owned that shows the top of the pump. That works! So, Come One, Come ALL!! Tell us about your mechanical fuel pump! Best, Bob Beede

[CSX 4133]

Gentleman, have you made a similar inquiry over on SAAC ?

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by CSX 4133

Gentleman, have you made a similar inquiry over on SAAC ?

Yes and the AC Owner's Club forum.

Thanks for thinking of that.

[PeteF]

How about the museum where CSX2000 resides. Might it have its original style pump? Maybe as a prototype it was different.....

[Kit Coyle]

Robert Walker wrote Cobra Pilote in 2017. He will soon publish his second book
that will be specifically on the early 260 Cobras. Since I owned CSX2047 he
contacted me for photos, history, etc. on that car. You might get Robert in the
loop as he may well be able to help with some answers.

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by Kit Coyle

Robert Walker wrote Cobra Pilote in 2017. He will soon publish his second book
that will be specifically on the early 260 Cobras. Since I owned CSX2047 he
contacted me for photos, history, etc. on that car. You might get Robert in the
loop as he may well be able to help with some answers.

Mr. Walker gets copies of findings. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by PeteF

How about the museum where CSX2000 resides. Might it have its original style pump? Maybe as a prototype it was different.....

Somebody made a pass at making pictures for me a year or so ago but fuzzy cell phone pictures were not all that good for much.

If I can find them I had a professional photographer take a set of engine bay pictures of the car decades ago. First I have to find that set of prints and second it would be luck to have great fine details of the fuel pump.

Good idea and it reminded me of the old prints.

[PeteF]

As a last resort, someone at the museum may be willing to take the time to look closer and take some good photos. I'm assuming this would not require any disassembly.

[xb-60]

Dan and Bob,

Do you have a picture of the 6423 pump that you can post?

I'm assuming that this one is probably a later replacement pump? It does however have "AC" cast into the cover.




Cheers,
Glen

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by xb-60

Dan and Bob,

Do you have a picture of the 6423 pump that you can post?

Cheers,
Glen

At some point after finding whatever can be I will have a slide show file covered engine mounted pumps for all chassis. The draft is already about twenty pages long. This subject is being difficult to gather information on because so few early cars stayed substantially intact as built. Three of our better data points are cars parked by circa 1967 and not run or moved for decades. Bob’s car has its original pump and that is our best sample to date. It would be really great to have five or more additional examples to get some information from.

How about pumps available for sale used, rebuilt, remanufactured, new replacements, new old stock replacements, and or new old stock from 1962? All the variants are confounding the research. At this time we know of four different manufacturers that made pumps for the same engine application. I have come across more companies that have sold rebuilt or remanufactured units than I can recall. All four brands are similar and some (but not all) parts will interchange. The rebuilders and remanufactures often mixed parts from all brands into one “remanufactured” pump. Example: One remanufactured pump could have a new made rocker arm and each of the three die castings could each be from a different manufacturer. The one part type Bob has identified that does not interchange into all valve bodies is the cartridge valves. There are valves of different designs and most importantly different in outer diameters which is the critical detail to be able interchange.

A theory is that all four brands were an AC-Delco® design made under license by three other companies at some point in time or another. It also possible that the original design was made some other O.E.M. parts supplier and AC-Delco and others made them under license.


At this time I don’t want to post the single brand associated with day one in new Cobras to reduce the temptation for anybody creating data just to participate.

[LMH]

CSX2034 appears to be a fairly original car. Online is a photo of the engine showing the fuel filter position but the pump is obscured in the photo. Does anyone know the current owner?
It might be a car to look at if anyone does.
Robert, the engine photo of 2034 also shows the tie rod ends and I now see what you were explaining about what the dust shield looks like. Pretty neat and I’ll keep my eyes open for one!
I’d post the photo but I’m on my phone and it’s near impossible to do!
Larry