427 original style pulleys?

[hi-tech cobra]

Where can I get some original style pulleys for my 427? I see them on eBay all the time, but don't know which ones to get, double crank pulley or single?

Will any 390-428 steel pulley work?

[blykins]

What accessories are you running? If you're just running a water pump and alternator, you just need a single crank pulley, a water pump pulley, and an alternator pulley.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

Will any 390-428 steel pulley work?

So long as you don't underdrive them, and so long as they align properly, "Yes."

[hi-tech cobra]

blykins, just a water pump and alt.

Originally Posted by patrickt

So long as you don't underdrive them, and so long as they align properly, "Yes."

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean 'underdrive' them?

[blykins]

Underdrive pulleys....running the accessories slower than the crank by diameter reduction. Gains a few hp.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

blykins, just a water pump and alt.

Then keep it very simple and do it like I did. Here is a picture:

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean 'underdrive' them?

You do not want your water pump pulley to be "underdriven" in order to save horsepower. That will cause you to overheat. Plug in "underdrive" and "water pump" for a search and you'll find many, many threads. The most recent one, as I recall, also included some pics of some very nice pulleys from the Kirkham bros. -- I think I remember that, but I could be wrong. It was a very recent thread though, like just last month.

[hi-tech cobra]

Thanks guys!

patrickt, what kind of water pump pulley is that?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

Thanks guys!

patrickt, what kind of water pump pulley is that?

Nothing you see there is fancy. The balancer and pulleys are all Jegs stuff, as I recall, and not on the expensive end either. The water pump is an Edelbrock. You don't need to spend a lot on this type of stuff -- it's the stuff that goes on the inside that tends to cost a bit more.

[patrickt]

That is a "one of a kind" custom-made timing pointer though. Carefully hand crafted and tack-welded with the finest tacks. Very, very labor intensive and expensive.

[hi-tech cobra]

Will this work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-...em220212983489

Is it period correct?

[hi-tech cobra]

How about this one for the water pump? He says the offset spacing is 2 1/2" and another one on eBay said it had 2 1/4" offset. Aren't they all 2 1/4"?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTA...em230233026950

[Burgs]

When I sourced some original era pulleys, and saw they were just stamped pieces that needed a good beating to straighten out, I just could not bring myself to install them on the highly balanced aluminum 482 that Keith built for me. I bought a new set from March, and thru the vintage parts in the pile of extra parts.

[patrickt]

On those two items it shows the crank pulley's diameter as 6 3/8" and the water pump pulley as 7 1/4" -- that's an underdrive condition. You should try and get your two pulleys to have the same diameter.

[patrickt]

I started looking for the thread that had pictures of the Kirkham pulleys, but then I got distracted by 392Cobra's avatar and forgot what I was looking for. Also keep in mind that an underdriven alternator pulley might have trouble charging your system as well. I did run across this post though that at least referenced the Kirkham pulleys:

Originally Posted by SantaFe66

I had the March std set and the water pump pulley was 6.5" and the crank was something like 5.25". The car overheated because of the underdriven pulley set. I bought a billet 5.25" waterpump pulley from Kirkham, it is really nice looking and no more overheating. Good to know that March made it right for someone but you won't find that combination on their website. Kirkham has some really nice billet aluminum bits for reasonable money.

The alternator can be positioned high with the standard brackets from a Ford Pickup or can be positioned low with the set that accomodated the air pump from a later Ford. They aren't very nice looking, just utilitarian Ford parts.

I found many billet bracket sets when I was looking. Do a google search and see what you find. Most of the billet sets were very expensive but looked pretty good. I settled for ceramic coating the stock Ford bracket parts and it looks fine to me.

Good luck.

Paul

[hi-tech cobra]

What about NAPA? Would they have them?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

What about NAPA? Would they have them?

Well, they might; give them a call. If they don't, I just checked Mansfield Mustang and they have water pump pulleys and crankshaft pulleys all starting at under a hundred bucks. Here's a link to some of their pulley stuff, but you should really just pick up the phone and call them since their web pages don't always show what they have sitting right there in front of them. http://mansfieldmustang.com/EngineMechanicalp2.html
When you install your pulleys, first just put them on and see how close they are in alignment and then use brass shim stock to plumb them just right. Try and get them so they are less than .0625 of an inch out of alignment. The farther away the pulleys are, the more of a fudge factor you get, but keeping them under .0625 is pretty good.

[SuperHart]

Here are some uselful tidbits I picked up from searching for pulleys for my 351W. These principles will hold true even for Ford FE motors. After all, Ford wouldn't bother making up a whole new set of rules for each engine group.

What has been previously said about "underdrive" is mostly correct. Many guys get fancy and use "underdrive" pulleys thinking they are going to gain horsepower by slowing down the water pump and alternator only to later realize that they caused more pronblems than they solved (engine overheating and insufficient alternator output). Most underdrive sets achieve the underdrive by reducing the diameter of the crank pulley. It is uncommon to alter the diameter of the alternator pulley since that one is already rather small. Most Ford FE pulleys will be standard in "offset" or depth and bolt spacing. The differences will be in pulley diameter and number of sheaves on the crank and water pump pulleys.

Don't bother with using pulleys that have more sheaves (grooves) than you need. A Cobra usually uses a water pump and an alternator so a single sheave pulley set will do fine. If you have power steering or (shudder) air conditioning then you will need maybe a two sheave set.

Ideally for street usage, you want the crank and water pump pulleys to be the same diameter or the water pump pulley slightly smaller in diameter, the key word being "slightly". The usual diameter of Ford passenger car crank pulleys is between 6" and 6.5" but truck pulleys may go a little larger. A smaller water pump pulley will cause an overdrive of the water pump which is probably good on the street especially at idle. However, if you choose a water pump pulley that is more than 1/2" smaller in diameter than the crank pulley you will get excessive overdrive (not so good) of the water pump. The pulleys I use are 6 1/8" crank and 5 7/8" water pump and they work very well.

Regarding alignment of the pulleys, install your crank pulley first and then align the water pump and alternator pulleys to that one in that order. Mr. Gasket makes a water pump shim kit just for that purpose if needed. The alternator can be shimmed forward using appropriately sized flat washers. The crank and water pump pulleys are close enough to each other to make alignment simple. The alternator is a little more tricky but a careful eye-balling should do just fine unless you expect to see sustained 7000+ RPMs like most of us do on the street (AHEM). After all, we aren't really talking rocket science here, just some common horse sense. But like my daddy always said, "Common sense ain't common."

[patrickt]

Since you're putting your pulleys on there's one little tip that I'll pass on that will make your life a little easier later on -- take the time now to put an easy to see mark for your total timing figure on your balancer. For instance, I time my engine to have 35 degrees total advance (your total advance is your initial timing that you set at idle plus the total mechanical advance that your distributor's bushing will allow; my MSD distributor has no vacuum advance). You can see below that I have a nice bright orange mark at 35 degrees. I set my timing to that mark at 3500RPM and just ignore the timing at idle. With my eyes I can barely see the actual degree markings on the harmonic balancer, but that bright orange line makes it hard to get it wrong. Just a tip that you might find handy.

[hi-tech cobra]

I am amazed by the knowledge on this site...you guys rock!
Thank you for taking the time to help!

It looks like I might get some March pulleys, just to speed things along. Then take my time and find some nice original style one that are in good shape. Still don't know if NAPA sells them, I went into one yesterday and waited 30 mins at the counter while 1 guy helped people on the phone. Oh well, I'll just call next time.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

I am amazed by the knowledge on this site...you guys rock!

Yes, but wait until we start billing your credit card without your permission....