New never assymblied 1967 Nascar 427 - Page 8

KobraKarl · #**141** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 12:07 PM

superkit,

I'm not saying your motor is or isnt a NASCAR engine... Just pointing out the part #'s you have listed do not confirm a NASCAR engine, as only the rotating assy #'s can do that. Yes I under stand you dont want to tear into the bottom end ., but aside from removing the pan, you wont need to, the #'s can all be read with the rotating assy. in place

Most of the guys here are not trying to find fault, just trying to figure out through a computor screen whether or not you have one of the rarest of the rare.......dont take it so personal.

KK

super_kit_car · #**142** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 12:46 PM

wrong, there are no numbers visable, just pulled the pan. no numbers anywhere except for the numbers on the main caps. just matching cap and rod #s. I did measure the rod caps, had to take one off. the cap is .865 and the bearing is .735 no numbers though. this is my last post, if not enough info too bad, don't care anymore. Super Kit

super_kit_car · #**143** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 01:12 PM

one last thing, the rod bolts screw into the rods and have a 12 point head on them.

KobraKarl · #**144** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 01:19 PM

super kit,

Do the rods look polished or do they look sandcast,try taking a flashlight and look at the side of the rods, the # will be halfway between the piston and crank on each rod, the crank # is between one of the rod and crank journals , if you dont see it , it must be turned away from you.

KK

super_kit_car · #**145** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 01:38 PM

very difficult to see anything, looks like a B7 or 87, not sure. will pull piston to settle issue. only way to get all numbers. will post about 6:00 pm

super_kit_car · #**146** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 02:26 PM

rods are B7, not polished

super_kit_car · #**147** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 03:01 PM

here are all the part #'s I have, on the block right side front inverted 87 352, on piston sidewall front right 12 DIP, inside oil gallery 427 26, on rear of block P 66-427, pistons C5AE-6110-AU, heads(numbers are cast into heads, why two different numbers, don't know, but that is what is stamped into heads) C4AE 0D10 6090F , other head C4AE 130 6090F, intake valves C8AX-6507-A, exhaust C8AX-6505-A, the rods are B7's. this should bring this to a close, you have the numbers. I am finished with this. at this point not willing to sell it to anyone in here, don't need your money and don't like the abuse I have suffered here, hope you are satisfied now. keep your money and I will keep my motor, even if it is only worth $ .10 it's mine. I'll use it as a bird bath. not one person has said, hey that's a nice car you built, mine is just as nice as any I have seen here, and it's not just my opinion, I have taken first place in two car shows and the car is not finished yet and it is my first build, not bad for a first at this, wait to you see the second. all I have recieved here is criticism and abuse, I don't need it and don't tolerate it. GOODBYE. Super Kit

427 S/O · #**148** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 03:03 PM

Whew!!!!!!!! Finally.............

fxbill · #**149** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 03:10 PM

After modding a site with 37,000 members for almost 2 years and never seeing any flaming allowed I'm disappointed to see that the mods here would allow this thread to continue as long as it has.

super_kit_car · #**150** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 03:43 PM

"Whew " that's exactly what I said 427 SO, after viewing your car. must have had a hangover when choosing the layout of your car. the motor and suspension are nice, but the rest ?

Excaliber · #**151** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 04:03 PM

Actually I think this has been a very educational and informative thread.

Computerworks DID in fact consider shutting it down early on because of the "name calling" (which was most unfortunate, the name calling). The policy here, and I think rightly so, is moderators take a VERY hands off approach to "moderating" unless it gets REALLY nasty. And this thread "hasn't been THAT bad", in that regard. I've seen worse! WE have the freedom to speak our minds, and thats important. Try saying what YOU think on many many other forums and you WILL get "moderated" in a heart beat.

Thats OK for THOSE forums, this one is different. Good? Bad? Decide for yourself, I like it, I think it's fair and I appreciate being able to "question" and "comment" without being "censored". If you don't like other peoples opinions, and in some posts The Truth, go to the FFR site. They will be shut you down in a hurry. Thats OK for them, it's different here.

I think the thread has been allowed to continue because it IS an important topic and raises some solid questions about the 427 S.0.'s. The subject DOES generate some strong feelings on both sides. I for one do not want to bury my head in the sand and be "paranoid" about offending someone while I search for the truth.

Agreed, some comments have been unwarranted. But I won't thow out the "baby with the bad bath water".

Ernie

Excaliber · #**152** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 04:10 PM

This was originally offered by Tom Kirkham, a source of information I would have to consider "top shelf"!!!!

Quote:

On identifiying a 427 by looking under the hood.
some give aways.

1. Head casting numbers.
2. Unique to 427 timing pointer
3.Harmonic balancer with integral fan belt pulley and only a mark for TDC (no numbers)
4. Intake manifold (should match heads)
5. Cross bolt main bolts can be seen with a flash light
6. Dual point distributer (No vacum advance canister)
7. Big alternator pulley.
8. S.O. have plugs on side of block.
9. All but 68 engines had mechanical lifters. You can hear mechanical lifters.
10. Adjustable rocker arms (well you need to pull a valve cover) but if you are buying, pull a cover.
11. screw in freeze plugs. All other FE engines had press in freeze plugs.

Ernies "take" on this? VERY difficult to "ID" a 427 S.O. by simply "popping the hood". It's more complex than that. "ID" of a NASCAR engine is an "order of magnitude" more complex.

As Spock would say,,,,,,"Fascinating"!

Ernie

Turk · #**153** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 06:06 PM

At what point did you all want the moderators to come in and put this thread out of it's misery?

When it first started, or when the item for sale got challenged, or when the rebuttals showed up.?.There have been demands for numbers and photos.

If the moderators had jumped in earlier and locked this thread up, the seller who hasn't done the best presentation so far would have been denied an opportunuty to present those numbers, everyone has been asking about.

Moderators ARE monitoring the the thread, and the Moderators would recommend SELF-MODERATION at this point.

TURK
CC Moderator

wtcobra · #**154** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 07:34 PM

I am sure not all FE "NASCAR" engines, including S.O.'s, had the heavy rods and the forged crank with the widened journals. I know not all 427's had screw in freeze plugs. I have a couple of the so called NASCAR cranks and a set of the big rods, if anyone is really interested. I have learned this about FE's and that is that everytime you think you know everything there is to know about them, something new pops up. I have been messing with these engines longer than I want to admit, but I do know that there were many exceptions to the basic engines, including XE part numbers, no part numbers or other numbers that are not listed in some book. This fella could have a "NASCAR" engine without having the widened rod journals and heavy rods. As I recall the journals are .080 wider than the standard 427 crank, you could turn your 427 into a "NASCAR" by machining the rod journals an extra .080 and using the heavier rods and larger bearings. Most Hi-performance parts back then were distributed through Holman-Moody or you could order through your Ford dealer from the Muscle Parts Catalogue. Just because this fella doesn't know a lot about this engine does not mean it isn't something from a H-M or Muscle Parts dealer, if he did indeed get the engine from someone else as he claims.

Wayne Turpin

KobraKarl · #**155** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 07:59 PM

Wayne ,

I totally agree about part #'s not being absolute with an FE, example; the defining characteristic of a 65 Shelby 2x4 intake manifold is ..........the absence of a part #.....Holman Moody certainly built FE's to every configuration under the sun....However, from everything I have ever read or seen, the NASCAR heavy polished rod and .080 over rod journals are considered THE identifying hallmark of the high revving Oval track motor. Heads, manifolds, valves, cams,were used and interchanged , I think the NASCAR rotating assy. was only produced (at least by Ford) from 67-70 , I supose someone else had to build them from 63-66.?????

KK

KK

super_kit_car · #**156** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 08:10 PM

again here are all the part #s on the block right side front inverted 87 352, on piston sidewall front right 12 DIP, inside oil gallery 427 26, on rear of block P 66-427, pistons C5AE-6110-AU, heads C4AE 0D10 6090F , other head C4AE 130 6090F, intake valves C8AX-6507-A, exhaust C8AX-6505-A, the Rods are B7s, only number on them. the rod cap is .865 wide, the bearing is .735, no numbers on them.

wtcobra · #**157** (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 10:08 PM

Karl-The Nascar crank had a C9 part number, but the larger rods had a C7 part number. I thought the Nascar crank was for use with the TP heads, and of course, the TP was outlawed by Nascar in about 68, of course there was a lot of cheating back then, so who knows when parts were phased in and out. I don't recall the heavy Nascar rods being polished, I am going to have to dig mine out and take a look at them. I know the Lemans rods did not come polished as I have peened and polished a bunch of them. Must have 4 or 5 sets of them stored around here somewhere, I guess I should sell them as I am never going to use them.

Wayne Turpin

hdheritage97 · #**158** (**permalink**) 07-09-2003, 05:33 PM

Well, it took a while to read all this but now that I have, I want to add the little I do know for sure about this. Yes, there is deffinately a NASCAR crank and rods out there, yes, they are wider than the LeMans, and only NASCAR rods can be used with a NASCAR crank. With that said, and it's not much, I have a TP in my Cobra. I had it verified at Cobra Automotive in Conn. and it of course is a SO block, has LeMans rods AND crank, and of course TP heads. We know that the TP was developed for NASCAR but that doesn't mean my engine is a NASCAR engine at all. From the sounds of it, I doubt this is a NASCAR engine that he has. I'm sure he may believe it is because he has been told it is by a very close friend and he trusts what his friend has told him. Many people believe that 427 were a magical thing, and I guess they were in their time, but not all of them were. I'm sure his friend thinks he has a NASCAR engine JUST because he had a 427. It would be an easy assumption since all the Fords raced then had 427 painted on the hoods, remember that ? In any case, I'm sure either way he has a very nice piece, one I wouldn't at all mind having, and I wish him well. By the way, I happen to think he did a great job on his car, even though I am one of the idiots with an original Guardsman Blue/Wimbledon White striped car, but hey, to me, THAT is what a Cobra is supposed to look like. In any case, I hope maybe I helped, hope I didn't hurt anything, but I think I have a plausable explanation for the thinking behind this NASCAR engine.

Cliff

avanti-176 · #**159** (**permalink**) 07-09-2003, 08:05 PM

Cobra427mnsi,
HA! HA! You are exactly right! But I really was not trying to criticize him I was only trying to make the point that in the written medium unlike the spoken word you can end up looking somewhat silly (no matter how well informed and intelligent you are) with a simple spelling error. which I then deftly went on to prove in a big hurry

Now after taking "how to make a point" to an entirely new level
and admitting my idiocy I will go lick my wounds and return when
all of the blood leaves my face and returns to where it came from.

everyone have a good one,
Dan

super_kit_car · #**160** (**permalink**) 07-09-2003, 08:48 PM

thanks Cliff, been through a lot here, but it has calmed down, my plan worked to a tee. they are all but gone, although this might bring them back and we will just start from the beginning again and forget the past. I just took a few more pictures of the engine. I also found a few more part #s. at this point I am tempted to take the engine apart and get all part #s and specs. only problem is I think the motor may be worth more the way it is. it's ugly now, but if I decide to take it apart, I'm going to clean and polish everything. trying to make for certain which engine it is. I have did searches, but have not been able to find a source for original part numbers for this engine, but could not find much. here is the lasted list and all I can find without taking the engine apart. on the block right side front inverted 87 352, on piston sidewall front right 12 DIP, inside oil gallery 427 26, on rear of block P 66-427, pistons C5AE-6110-AU, heads C4AE 0D10 6090F , other head C4AE 130 6090F, intake valves C8AX-6507-A, exhaust C8AX-6505-A, the Rods are B7s, only number on them. the rod cap is .865 wide, the bearing is .735, no numbers on them. bottom of block,front right corner of oil pan, 41LA copp or ATLAS copp hard to tell,end fades away. also same area 8168. Main Cap 2, 63 34 D, Cap 3, 63 30 D, Cap 4, 63 27 D. bottom edge of piston sidewall front right facing oil pan, E1 266 or 2G6. on first crank lobe, front of engine, 3 71 M. I have also uploaded some more photo's.