427 Side Oiler Ready to go

[Snakecharmer]

This is the real deal folks. It's an absolutely beautiful '68 (October 2, 1968 to be exact) all Ford parts dual quad side oiler with matched carbs. I've had this motor since '01 and I've oiled and turned it every couple of months since.

Dual Holley 650 quads, 10.5:1 Venolia pistons w/ molly rings, Le Mans rods w/ 13/32 ARP bolts, balanced and blueprinted, True Roller timing chain, high volume modified oil system, Erson TQ20 cam and kit, stainless 3 angle valves, Mallory Unilite Distributor, and Cobra Le Mans valve covers.

This engine was manufactured by Ford expressly for racing or service so it is not stamped with the usual numbers like an installed engine would have been. The only identifiable casting is 66-427 in the valley and rear, which all 427's have, and 88 over 352 on the typical left front, all FE engines had 352 cast there. The heads are part #C4AE which are low rise big port hi-performance four barrel 390-406-427-428 type with stainless valves. These heads combined with the custom made Venolia flat top pistons make for 10.5:1 compression which allows 90+ octane pump gas. The intake manifold is an original 4X2 Ford 427 low rise piece part C3AE 9426-K. Erson TQ20 cam. High volumn modified oiling system. The crank is part # C3AE-U. It has been chamfered, micro polished and balanced. The connecting rods are the wide beam type used on FE hi-performance applications. They were tagged as Le Mans rods. They have been modified with larger 13/32" 428 Cobra type ARP bolts and they are also balanced with new full float pins. The rotating assembly is internally balanced so any common (internal) flywheel, 352-390-406-427, will work. The carbs are a matched pair of rebuilt Holley’s from the mid 60’s. All the linkage and fuel lines are set and ready to connect. The distributor is a Ford type converted to Mallory Unilite electronic with extended mechanical advance. The vacuum advance is still operational and the plug wires are platinum solid core Moroso type.

If this motor doesn't sell by Spring break, I'm going to build a "run" stand for it so I can listen to the beautiful sound of this rare bird I'm not looking at being able to afford another cobra for a while now so I'm willing to sell this piece if the price is right. I've got about $8k in this motor as it sits but I'd take less. Don't hesitate to make me an offer if you are interested and serious.

Here is an old add from the builder in Chicago that I bought the motor from. IGNORE THE PICTURE TEXT - 10k is NOT THE ASKING PRICE. I'll take some new pictures and post to this thread.

Thanks,
Charmer

[Snakecharmer]

Here is another pic that I found.....Hope it's not too small

[clayfoushee]

Charmer,

That seems like very good price, but how do you know it's a '68 without the date codes. I just went through the whole ID research process on mine with a lot of help here. There should be some sort of date code on the driver's side of the block stamped just above the oil pan, near the oil filter mount. The consensus of the FE experts here was that, absent a code on the pass. side of the block (denoting which car it was installed in), it's a "service" block, as is mine.

But, no matter what it is, that appears to be a very good price for a healthy SO.

[A Snake]

I'm not seeing the characteristic side oiler bulge on the side of the block. Maybe you could put up a pic of both sides. Don't need the heads in the pic, just the top of the oil pan and bottom two thirds of the block - both sides.

Al

[Snakecharmer]

Clay,

I agree with you. The missing stamping indicated an over-the-counter-purchase vs. an installed motor. The clue about the date comes from the fact that it's a hydraulic side oiler. According to the experts that I confirred with, hydrolic blocks weren't made until 68. The only way to tell from the outside (I believe) is to look at the back of the block near the cam seal and you'll see 4 inset bolts with female hex sockets. A couple of these bolts are actually galley plugs for the lifter oil. I understand that it's easy to change a hydraulic block to a solid lifter block by switching these bolts. I spent a few hours on the phone with one of the well respected CC members who builds FE motors and he confirmed that it's hydrolic with original parts.

Al,

The lighting is bright and it does make everything wash together. I'll take pictures here in a bit and post them later tonight.

Thanks for your interest guys. It's amazing how much you learn from folks just by owning one of these engines. I've got a long way to go but it's a fun trip!

Charmer

[Snakecharmer]

Uploading pictures is trial and error (with me). One of you guys have any tips? I've got the camera set on the lowest resolution, lowest quality, and I still have a tough time fitting it into the 40000 limit. Here they are small. I'll upload the bigger ones into my gallery tonight.

Charmer

[Snakecharmer]

Right side (passenger)

[Snakecharmer]

Rear cam seal and hydraulic galley plugs

[Snakecharmer]

Sorry the previous pics are so small (help!). Posted bigger versions in my gallery.

Gotta get up early so I'm done for the night.

Charmer

[clayfoushee]

Charmer,

Check out the FE Forum on the main page. Under that, is a thread call FE Block Numbers started by me. That's how I ID'ed my engine.

Actually, side oiler service blocks were manufactured through Sept. '72, and they were all hydraulic lifter blocks between 68-72. I finally deciphered my date codes that I referred to earlier above the oil pan, as July 3 or 8, 1971. You're completely right about the conversion to solid lifters, which mine now has.

Again, it doesn't mean that it's not a nice side-oiler and worth the money. At any rate, you might find that thread useful.

[A Snake]

Charmer,

It's an S/O alright. Now, FYI even the '68 Hydraulic engines had LeMans rods. They did NOT have CJ rods. They DID have CJ cylinder heads, but NOT Low Riser C3 pieces. They also DO have forged steel cranks. If the original crank is in it, it will have hex screw plugs (2nd gen. 427 crank) in the rod journals and be cross drilled.

It will also have forged pistions. Unless it has been converted, by plugging the hydraulic lifter oil galley, it will not work well with solid lifters.

Further info. : Only the 68 hydraulic lifter blocks have 427 cast into the lifter valley. The earlier S/O's do not.

Charmer, I don't wish to be offensive at all, but I must say, what you are describing did not come from Ford that way. Now, I'm not at all saying is it not a perfectly good engine. It probably is. I would however, suggest that you might want to slightly reword your offering, in order to more accurately describe what you have. Including overbore amount and decking as well as undersize grind on the crank.

Just a suggestion. People are more likely to warm up to it if they know more about it.

Al

[Snakecharmer]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the info. Clay and Al, you guys obviously know more about these motors than I. I've told you what little I know about them, but I'm learning! Clay, I'd love to have a more specific date for the block so I'll definitely check out that thread. I don't mean to be misleading to anyone in any way. I'm by no means a motor expert. Just a cobra nut! Please excuse my ignorance. By "original", I mean that this motor is all original Ford FE material. Or as much as any side-oiler can be....block, heads, intake, and crank (of course the cam and valve train parts are new). As you know, many of the side oilers now have after market parts on/in them and I just want to differentiate this motor from those.

Just so you know how I came by the info on this particular motor, the part numbers were provided by the builder and confirmed by another builder here in Austin. The builder here didn't comment on the rods, however. Al, I'll take your word that the wide beam rods are Le Mans and not CJ. TBH, I don't know the difference. Is one better or more valuable than the other? I also decribed as much of the motor as I could see from the outside to George at Gessford over the phone. He confirmed that the exterior plugs and parts were correct.


The builder here in Austin also told me that the motor has been rebuilt before, but done with all the correct and necessary parts. He didn't measure the cylinder size or deck height but did say that the front two cylinders have been sleeved and looked to be in great shape. He also said that the nicely redone heads were probably from the early to mid 60's and that the block was definitely at least late 60's.

You guys have motivated me to learn more! I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me and everyone.

Keep the info and questions coming!

Charmer

[clayfoushee]

Charmer,

No need to apologize for anything. Your posts suggest you're being entirely honest here, and I still think your price is in the right neighborhood. You do have a legitimate side-oiler, and that in and of itself, makes it a valuable commodity, even if was made in '72 or whenever. Keep in mind that a lot of desirable cars, originally equipped with 427's had their motors replaced with service blocks over the years. That's one reason Ford kept casting those blocks for so long after they stopped putting them in cars.

I was in your same position not too long ago. I was originally told mine was a '65 side-oiler by the "expert" handling to sale of my car, but decided to research it on my own. I don't think he was necessarily being dishonest, just not the expert he thought he was, and didn't take the time to actually run the numbers down.

If you check out that "FE block numbers" thread in the FE TALK forum, you'll see a couple of posts by a guy named "River Racer." He provides a phone number, and seems to be a genuine FE expert. You might give him a call.

Best of luck......

[Snakecharmer]

Clay,

What a great thread!! I think we have the same type of block. I don't have the ribs like you do on the passenger side but there isn't a date or anything else on that side of the engine.

I tried to decipher the stamp below the oil in/outlet, on cylinder #1, and it's hard to see but it looks like 8 (or 9) J 2. There is a big E above those (or below depending on how you look at it).

Can you tell from this stamping what date it is????

I took pics but they all came out blurry. I'll try again.


Thanks,

Charmer

[clayfoushee]

If those are the numbers 8= 68 block, J= October, and 2= the 2nd. October 2, 1968. The lack of ribs seems to suggest you were right about the date all along.

[clayfoushee]

P.S. The "DIF" stamping under the head on the driver's side means Dearborn Iron Foundry. The lack of stamping on the pass. side likely means it wasn't installed in a pass. car at the factory, but that's also consistent with the info. you have.

[Snakecharmer]

Thanks for the kind words and support Clay. I will try RR and see if he can help me.

O.K. after messing with focus, flash, and lighting, this was the best I could do. Can you tell anything?

Thanks,

Charmer

[clayfoushee]

Charmer, scroll up to end of page 1, if the numbers are correct, looks like October 2, 1968 or 9.

[Snakecharmer]

Thanks again Clay.... I guess our motors were both born in the same hospital! I can't take credit for knowing the year. The 68 number was just what was told to me. I should have been more knowledgable when I bought the engine. If most of what I was told about the motor is true, I guess I can count myself lucky

Charmer

[clayfoushee]

Yep, I think you have a fine motor on your hands.