Registering a used out of state cobra in CA

[grybrd123]

Hi:

If a CA resident bought a used (more than 7500 miles) Cobra out of state and wanted to register it in CA, how would that work? Would an SB100 number be required for a high mileage used car with a registration history in another state? Would the way it was titled affect registration - that is (for instance) if it was titled as a 200X assembly vs a 1965 replica?



Thanks!
Grybrd123

[David Biele]

Grybrd123,

I bought a legally titled cobra from Florida and I had no problem registering it here in CA. Very simple actually.

David

[grybrd123]

Did you have to go through all the smog and SB100 stuff to do it?

Thanks!
grybrd123

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by grybrd123

Hi:

If a CA resident bought a used (more than 7500 miles) Cobra out of state and wanted to register it in CA, how would that work? Would an SB100 number be required for a high mileage used car with a registration history in another state? Would the way it was titled affect registration - that is (for instance) if it was titled as a 200X assembly vs a 1965 replica?



Thanks!
Grybrd123

Believe it or not, it is actually easier to register/title a car in California if it has a state issued VIN and proper title (IE: 200X specialty constructed or whatever). Where people get into trouble is when a builder uses a VIN from another vehicle (say a 1966 Mustang VIN for instance) and under reports the purchase price to reduce the sales tax paid to the state. As for SB100, yes, you will most likely need a SB100 certification. I do remember the old laws stated emissions were based on the year of the engine, but I do not know if this is still the case. If so, then look for a vintage powered replica with a 65 or earlier engine block.......Also with a vintage motor, you may not need an SB100......Again your best bet is to call your local motor vehicle agency and speak with a knowledgeable supervisor just to play it safe......


Hope you find this helpful.


Bill S.

[David Biele]

Bill,

My Cobra was register as a 1965 Cobra. I checked it out and everything was titled correctly in Florida and CA honered the out of state title and no SB100 or smog was needed. I was told that CA must honer a legally titled car from out of state. I was very clear with the DMV that it was a replica car and they had no heartburn.

David

[Gunner]

David, when did you register your car in CA?

[kurtmart]

You can't register or smog on the year of the block anymore.

If it ends up titled as a 65 Ford then it could be considered a fraud. All this is in flux right now and you can get a different story from any given DMV, so be careful, getting the SB 100 is the way go.

I'd recommend taking the time to go carefully through all the CC "Morgester" postings. He's with the DA's office and is handling these cases.

My 2 cents are up.

Kurt

[Gunner]

That's why I asked. I just got through SB-100 and my investigations from October on were that ALL other avenues - existing title, year of block, etc. - were invalid. In fact, registrations for a year earlier than year of build are now invalid even if issued, and owners really need to take advantage of the amnesty year and get those fixed before they lose them.

I'd bet that David B. registered his car in 2007 or earlier. It was still an option then but only because DMV was doing it wrong. They didn't even look at my prior MA registration and title for CA registration - just put it through the SB-100 hoops.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Gunner

That's why I asked. I just got through SB-100 and my investigations from October on were that ALL other avenues - existing title, year of block, etc. - were invalid. In fact, registrations for a year earlier than year of build are now invalid even if issued, and owners really need to take advantage of the amnesty year and get those fixed before they lose them.

I'd bet that David B. registered his car in 2007 or earlier. It was still an option then but only because DMV was doing it wrong. They didn't even look at my prior MA registration and title for CA registration - just put it through the SB-100 hoops.

This is old territory. In the March 2010 issue of Sports Car Market, Robert Morgester the Assistant AG in CA states that CA must accept a valid out of state 1965 Ford title, because CA law requires that "full faith and credit" be given to other states' titles.

"But," Morgester cautions, "the key word here is 'valid.' The owner would have to establish that a full disclosure of all pertinent facts was made to the other state before title was issued. Otherwise, the title is not 'validly issued' and California would not have to honor it."

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

This is old territory. In the March 2010 issue of Sports Car Market, Robert Morgester the Assistant AG in CA states that CA must accept a valid out of state 1965 Ford title, because CA law requires that "full faith and credit" be given to other states' titles.

"But," Morgester cautions, "the key word here is 'valid.' The owner would have to establish that a full disclosure of all pertinent facts was made to the other state before title was issued. Otherwise, the title is not 'validly issued' and California would not have to honor it."

Just curious, I don't have a dog in this but...

If you bring a valid 1965 titled reproduction into California do you have to get SB-100? Or is it good enough to simply have a 1965 titled car and comply with 1965 rules in California?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by kayakjack

Just curious, I don't have a dog in this but...

If you bring a valid 1965 titled reproduction into California do you have to get SB-100? Or is it good enough to simply have a 1965 titled car and comply with 1965 rules in California?

CA must honor ("full faith and credit") a valid title of the reproduction 1965 Cobra, Daytona Coupe or GT40, and they would have to comply with the 1965 rules. No SB100 is necessary.

Now, if you have a Noble or GTM or something that was not actually produced in 1965, then you're out of luck. SB100 would be necessary for these vehicles.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

CA must honor ("full faith and credit") a valid title of the reproduction 1965 Cobra, Daytona Coupe or GT40, and they would have to comply with the 1965 rules. No SB100 is necessary.

Now, if you have a Noble or GTM or something that was not actually produced in 1965, then you're out of luck. SB100 would be necessary for these vehicles.

This is a big change in the previous stance that the State of California had taken. There are a number of States that legally title special construction vehicles as a "1965 Cobra", so the strategy for a California buyer is to look at those States for a pre-owned car.

If they've opened up the floodgates, there is no reason to limit SB100 registrations. People are going to have someone register a car in another State as 1965 Cobra, then bring it in to California.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

People are going to have someone register a car in another State as 1965 Cobra, then bring it in to California.

I'm not sure if it's a change. Mr. Morgester talked about the "full faith and credit" issue before in his remarks here on CC.

As for registering a car in another state and then turning around and registering it in CA, that may constitute an "invalid title" since the title is being obtained in another state just to circumvent CA law.

Let's say you buy your new SPF Cobra, title it in another state, somehow (a relative, friend, yourself, etc.) pay their fees, then re-title it in CA and pay our fees. Seems kinda expensive to me and time consuming. Why not just do the SB100 process? It's really not that difficult.

[grybrd123]

Actually, I live in Oregon and don't need to be concerned at the moment. However, I have read the very interesting discussions on SB100 with horror, amusement, concern, and lots of other adjectives. I was curious because if I (some day, but not soon) sold my coupe and someone in CA wanted to buy it, then what?

Also, OR and other states are moving towards the CA system of doing things.

As it happens, Oregon titled my coupe as I hoped it would, based on the MSO that came with it. The MSO that came with the roller stated that it is a "1965 Shelby Cobra Daytona coupe replica". Therefore, OR titled it as a "1965 Shelby coupe replica", VIN SPCXXXX (the chassis number stamped on the frame). The registration slip itself only states "1965 Shelby". Under OR law, it is therefore subject only to the requirements in force in 1965, i.e., no post 1965 smog, safety, or other equipment. So, if my car (or another car with a similar MSO) were sold into CA, it sounds as though there would be no problem titling and registering it because it actually DOES have a valid registration as a 1965, even though its date of build was 2007 and it is a replica.

Am I correct?

Cheers
D

[RodKnock]

D,

I'm not an expert, but it appears you're correct. A valid title from another state must be honored by CA. However, the SB100 is really not a big deal.

The article did state that if you don't like the answers that you get from one DMV (i.e., they turn you down re: valid 65 title), then just go to another DMV or straight to the Sacramento DMV.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

The article did state that if you don't like the answers that you get from one DMV (i.e., they turn you down re: valid 65 title), then just go to another DMV or straight to the Sacramento DMV.

In a nutshell, our DMV is in chaos. They have no clear direction about how to do something as simple as register a car from another State in a standardized fashion.

[kurtmart]

The tricky part is the word "valid". It can be said that your out of state reg. is not valid because your car was not manufactured in 1965 nor was it made by Ford or Shelby.

SB 100 is the way to the light and everlasting life.

I'm an SCM subscriber too, and the legal files article was good,
but missed on a couple of points. Look for my letter to the Editor in the next couple of issues.

Are you out there Morgester?

Kurt

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by kurtmart

The tricky part is the word "valid". It can be said that your out of state reg. is not valid because your car was not manufactured in 1965 nor was it made by Ford or Shelby.

Kurt

As the article states, if you can prove to the CA DMV that all pertinent facts were disclosed when the car was registered, let's say for example in Oregon like the OP, then CA must honor it. What constitutes proof is interesting. Just because you verbally tell them it's not a 1965 Ford, but a replica, or if you insert the word replica on the OR forms in judicious places, may not be proof enough.

[kurtmart]

There in lies the rub.

[grybrd123]

I see. But, because my manufacturer provided MSO stated officially that the car is a replica of a 1965 etc, and OR used the MSO to determine how to title the car (in fact they kept it, so it's on file at the state DMV - but I have a copy of it and all the paperwork), it seems to me that's absolute proof that OR was informed BY THE MANUFACTURER of its status etc and the car therefore has a valid title.

So I could sell the car to a CA buyer, who would then be able to title and license it in CA without SB100.

What a pain in the ...... and it's coming to all of us in every state, you bet.

Thanks for all the info and advice.

grybrd123