Another California registration adventure

[Randy Rosenberg]

I'm going to assume that SEMA is engaged in this legal battle...

[SBSerpent]

Originally Posted by Randy Rosenberg

I'm going to assume that SEMA is engaged in this legal battle...

According to the attorney I spoke with, that is correct, along with BDR & SPF and ......

[SFcobra 222]

I own BDR 479. Didn't have any issue with registration after doing research on who to take it to locally for all the steps. It's a unicorn. Most people don't know what do when facing with something they are unfamiliar with.

I printed everything and showed the folks at the DMV when asked.

If there are roadblocks I'd ask the dealers that sell them here in California. Hillbank might have info. The CA Backdraft dealer's site is currently down.

Hope it works out. It was worth all the work and waiting.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by SFcobra 222

I own BDR 479. Didn't have any issue with registration after doing research on who to take it to locally for all the steps. It's a unicorn. Most people don't know what do when facing with something they are unfamiliar with.

I printed everything and showed the folks at the DMV when asked.

If there are roadblocks I'd ask the dealers that sell them here in California. Hillbank might have info. The CA Backdraft dealer's site is currently down.

Hope it works out. It was worth all the work and waiting.

Approximately when did you take BDR479 thru SB100?

[SFcobra 222]

It was long enough ago to not be very relevant. Maybe 13 years ago. Back when you had to be in line on January 1st to get a SB100 number. I asked and learned which DMV, CHP, Bar etc to visit and no problems except the arduous process it took.

I bought from Vintage, and at the time Jay helped as much as possible from across the county.

But it was the same process and my only 2c worth anything at all was to ask the people that have to make their living selling cobras in California how to register them. One would think they have a vested interest in this exact info.

What do I know, I'm just a lurker.

[Black427]

I have a BDR manufactured in 2015. I purchased directly from Backdraft, and had built to my specs. I live in Contra Costa county, but owned a home in Delray Beach, only about 30 min south from their shop. It is registered as a 1965 and my title shows that as well. I sold my house out there in September and had the Cobra shipped home here. I had an authorized auto dealer do a verification of vehicle on it and have the form all filled out. I have the application for title form filled out, current FL registration, clean FL title in my name, and CA insurance on it.

I was hoping to get it done at AAA. The gal took a look at my documents and asked about a smog certificate. I told her is registered as a 1965 and she said AAA cannot register any vehicles older than a 1980...strike 1

My intent is to go to DMV now and hold my breath unless anyone has other thoughts to try? Im happy to share everything that happens with the rest of the group.

[NROTOXIN]

You are aware that California will eventually call you and then raise you regarding calling your car a 1965 Cobra.

[jhv48]

Black 427. You can try to slip it by California DMV and hope they don’t catch you for committing fraud by registering your car as a 1965 vehicle in order to reduce your taxes and registration fees. Doesn’t matter how the car was registered in another State if the description is incorrect. (Your vehicle wasn’t really constructed in 1965). If you don’t drive it much, you might not get caught. And registering it as a 1965 vehicle with your insurance company won’t cause any problems unless you’re involved in an accident and a savvy claims adjuster notices the fraud. Then things can get sticky from there.
Why not avoid the problems in the first place and just register the car properly? It will cost a bit more but then you won’t have to worry every time you see a CHP checking out your car. Then enjoy driving it with a clear conscience.

[Randy Rosenberg]

To Black427: Welcome to California, and specifically to the SF Bay Area. As you may already know, we have an active Bay Area Cobra Club (BACC). We gather for a no-host breakfast every Saturday at Clementine's in San Ramon, starting around 730ish. We welcome anyone with an interest in Cobras. I suggest chatting with a few guys around your situation face to face. Regards, Randy...

[McCobra]

Following….

[Black427]

Originally Posted by Randy Rosenberg

To Black427: Welcome to California, and specifically to the SF Bay Area. As you may already know, we have an active Bay Area Cobra Club (BACC). We gather for a no-host breakfast every Saturday at Clementine's in San Ramon, starting around 730ish. We welcome anyone with an interest in Cobras. I suggest chatting with a few guys around your situation face to face. Regards, Randy...

Thanks Randy. I was actually trying to get over there yesterday but was unable. I have no intent of fraudulent doing anything so would like to hear from some of the members their suggestions on how I should proceed.

Thanks!
Mark

[tortuga]

Other than the weather and scenery far away from the garbage covered crime ridden cities, as a fourth generation Californian, i am looking forward to leaving this disaster…

[nkb]

Originally Posted by SBSerpent

Here in lies the problem - CARB HAS gotten involved by questioning how BDR and SPF builds qualify for SB100. As I said and based on information from an attorney that deals with SPCNS applications, everything is currently up in the air. Apparently, per the attorney, the arguments presented by the CARB folks don't hold water so now its just a waiting game. I will tell others what the attorney told me, a current BDR owner who is also trying to get a Cobra certified under SB100 - be patient and keep the faith. The arguments presented by the CARB officials are weak. But we shall see how this all plays out.

California dealer told me today that some 30-40 cars are being held up waiting for a resolution to this bureaucratic snafu. Doesn’t help a prospective Cobra roller buyer in California to put down a non-refundable deposit on a new order. Could get stuck with a car that you can’t register or alternatively forfeit your deposit. I guess you could try to register it elsewhere (which is also getting harder, e.g. Montana) or sell the car to someone in a more friendly state.

Too bad, a lot at stake for dealers and customers. The system was working fine until there was a recent change in personnel.

[nkb]

It appears that Superformance, Backdraft, and Caterham California registrations are all being held up. The BAR referee won't schedule an appointment to allow registration. Reason being given is that these cars are "turnkey". The Caterham community blames Superformance for having delivered turnkey cars. Caterham is accused of skirting the regulations by shipping their drivetrains separate from the rest of the car and then reassembling into a turnkey. The fact that Caterham delivers turnkey cars in the UK doesn't help either.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by nkb

It appears that ...

OK, here's what you do.... I'm guessing you're in your 70's, or darn close to it, so you really don't have a lot of time to screw around waiting and doing it the correct way for a new car. So, the solution is to throw money at the problem. Buy a used CSX/ERA/KMS, in whatever condition it's in, so long as it's titled properly there in CA, and then ship the car to either the elves at ERA, or the guys at Kirkham, and just throw enough money at them that they make the car exactly what you want. If you wait around for the bureaucrats to sort all of this crap out you're likely to get sick or die before you can enjoy your car. Anyway, that's my advice... just throw a shi*load of money at it and you'll end up with what you want.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by nkb

It appears that Superformance, Backdraft, and Caterham California registrations are all being held up. The BAR referee won't schedule an appointment to allow registration. Reason being given is that these cars are "turnkey". The Caterham community blames Superformance for having delivered turnkey cars. Caterham is accused of skirting the regulations by shipping their drivetrains separate from the rest of the car and then reassembling into a turnkey. The fact that Caterham delivers turnkey cars in the UK doesn't help either.

Please don't lump all "Caterham" sales/dealers into the same pile (and some SPF/BDR/Cat/ whatever dealers). Caterham is the manufacturer, not the retailer. We import the Caterham chassis and a separate, not affiliated company imports and sells the powertrains. Other than we know the other company, we have NO financial or other relationship with them.

Also understand that "Superformance" has NOT been the Caterham importer for about five years so that is a dealer/retailer issue, not the importer. Currently Caterham deals directly with the dealers, there is no "importer/distributor" involved.

In this industry there are several entities who are contravening the federal regulations regarding "arms length" by selling chassis and also selling the powertrain and even doing the installation. We know who they are but have not bus rolled them by turning them in as that will only cause closer scrutiny of all specialty car sellers.

Play by the rules and it works. Play fast and loose with the regulations and they bite you in the ass.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, here's what you do.... I'm guessing you're in your 70's, or darn close to it, so you really don't have a lot of time to screw around waiting and doing it the correct way for a new car. So, the solution is to throw money at the problem. Buy a used CSX/ERA/KMS, in whatever condition it's in, so long as it's titled properly there in CA, and then ship the car to either the elves at ERA, or the guys at Kirkham, and just throw enough money at them that they make the car exactly what you want. If you wait around for the bureaucrats to sort all of this crap out you're likely to get sick or die before you can enjoy your car. Anyway, that's my advice... just throw a shi*load of money at it and you'll end up with what you want.

I agree. This is called "Money Whipping" It can solve most problems...

[nkb]

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, here's what you do.... I'm guessing you're in your 70's, or darn close to it, so you really don't have a lot of time to screw around waiting and doing it the correct way for a new car. So, the solution is to throw money at the problem. Buy a used CSX/ERA/KMS, in whatever condition it's in, so long as it's titled properly there in CA, and then ship the car to either the elves at ERA, or the guys at Kirkham, and just throw enough money at them that they make the car exactly what you want. If you wait around for the bureaucrats to sort all of this crap out you're likely to get sick or die before you can enjoy your car. Anyway, that's my advice... just throw a shi*load of money at it and you'll end up with what you want.

This would perhaps be a "solution" except it doesn't take into account another major goal in procuring a "Cobra Kit": Doing the assembly myself. I don't really need another "iconic" car nor even another one also with exhilarating performance. I have those.

I wanted the satisfaction of specifying and assembling the car myself (something I have the tools and expertise to accomplish). The "journey" is part of the motivation, not just the turnkey car.

I suppose I could buy a used California licensed car and then work on that. But, it is likely to have had most of the major aspects (e.g. drivetrain) already addressed relegating one to working on lesser items.

A further motivation, besides my own selfish satisfaction, is that my grandchildren are interested in cars and would enjoy wrenching on a kit with me. During Covid, I conducted Zoom classes with them on "Automotive Engineering and Physics" to an eager audience. Be nice to continue this with a more hands-on aspect.

These kids will be inheriting the car collection, so it would be good if they have some understanding what it is about. And they already have the car "bug".

Other options are to buy a "project" classic car and restore that. Having done that before it can easily extend into a many year project. And as noted, I ain't getting any younger. But, that may still make sense.

We'll see. I'll monitor the registration issue here and also consider other options. To be continued.

[Cobalt289]

Having read so many of the SB100 posts in this forum and others, and having gone through the process myself, and having helped a few other guys go through the process, the only consistent thing about SB100 SPCNS registrations in California is that each one is different, depending on your luck of the draw not only at the DMV counter, but also at CHP and the BAR. Maybe it is better to just hire one of those services that do it all the time, since they probably know exactly who to go to?

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by nkb

This would perhaps be a "solution" except it doesn't take into account another major goal in procuring a "Cobra Kit": Doing the assembly myself. I don't really need another "iconic" car nor even another one also with exhilarating performance. I have those.

I wanted the satisfaction of specifying and assembling the car myself (something I have the tools and expertise to accomplish). The "journey" is part of the motivation, not just the turnkey car.

I suppose I could buy a used California licensed car and then work on that. But, it is likely to have had most of the major aspects (e.g. drivetrain) already addressed relegating one to working on lesser items.

A further motivation, besides my own selfish satisfaction, is that my grandchildren are interested in cars and would enjoy wrenching on a kit with me. During Covid, I conducted Zoom classes with them on "Automotive Engineering and Physics" to an eager audience. Be nice to continue this with a more hands-on aspect.

These kids will be inheriting the car collection, so it would be good if they have some understanding what it is about. And they already have the car "bug".

Other options are to buy a "project" classic car and restore that. Having done that before it can easily extend into a many year project. And as noted, I ain't getting any younger. But, that may still make sense.

We'll see. I'll monitor the registration issue here and also consider other options. To be continued.

IMHO, as long as you choose a "kit" that is not provided to you as a "roller" or "turn-key minus", then I think you will be fine. Building a vehicle from "scratch" is exactly what SPCNS was intended for. From what I had read here (and on other places), the BAR is only questioning replicas that are purchased as "rollers".