Bad experience with NY registration! Help! Long message but please read.

[UKjohnnycobra]

REgistering my Cobra in New York. I checked the DMV website, followed the instructions to the letter. Spoke to some people in Albany who were helpful but vague. Did all the paperwork (not difficult) Replaced all my lights with DOT and SAE approved items, fitted my bumpers etc even though the Albany people said that "no one would be checking for this, just make sure you have all your receipts for the safety inspection". Made my appointment and hauled the Cobra down to the Elsmford inspection station. Most people there were registering salvage vehicles and the "safety inspectors" were cops. Real cops with guns and stuff.

I have a 1968 302 in the car, which I bought as junk from a sunoco station in Connecticut which specialises in Mustang rebuilds and had rebuilt by a reputable outfit in NJ. The transmission is a 1981 T5 from the CT Sunoco which they sourced fo me from a salvage yard. I am an immigrant to this country and didn't know where to get this stuff and they were very helpful. I have all the receipts for the engine, tranny, rebuild and all receipts for the chassis, body everything down to the last nut and bolt.

But they failed to give me a VIN. The reason? I couldn't link the engine and gearbox back to an existing VIN from the donor vehicle, as you would havbe to with a salvage vehicle. They said each engine and major component has a mark on it somewhere (they wouldn't say where) and my items don't have them. The guy, while friendly. had never dealt with a kit build before (he told me so). I have never heard of these secret marks he is referring to, and doubt that they were in use in 1968 when my engine was built. And he won't tell me any more information because it would help criminals if it ever got out (I'm serious!).
According to him I have an engine I can't use, and he won't tell me what to look for to make sure that any replacement is compliant. So I am stuck.
Has anyone had a similar experience or know the names of individuals in NY who can be contacted for a sane opinion?

Thanks

John

[ERA Chas]

Where are you located in NY? Elmsford?

[ROUSHAC]

John,

Jim Kellogg has some numbers from Albany for some "sane" people at DMV.

Do a search on his name and PM him. I'm sure that he'd be glad to help you.

Good luck!

Cheers!
Dave

[mrmustang]

The transmission being a 1981 item would not have even a partial VIN stamped into it as this practice did not take effect until mid year 1987. The engine would have to be a "J" code small block to have a partial VIN stamped into it, otherwise if it is a standard "C" code block, it would not have a VIN stamped into it. Only HiPo blocks had VIN stampings up until the late 80's. And those would have had them on the back of the block, drivers side, on a small pad cast into the block itself.

Bill S.

[mrud]

Do yourself a favor and have your car brought down to the DMV guys in Babylon. They have done quite a few cobras and will work with you. I had mine done and it went very well.
Regards,
Mike R

[JCoop]

John,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. NY DMV has become a real pain lately. Ever since I got flagged and went through "the process", I have been geting suspension notices for the stupidest things. 3 sets of plates for cars I had long sold out of state, I had to get affidavits, copies of bill of sales, etc etc. I just got another suspension letter for my recently legalized Cobra. Now, because I got a vanity plate and the insurance card doesn't match. I'm this close to moving out of this f+%$# state.

Anyway, I'm afraid they may be right on this one. If the major components (engine, chassis, transmission) used in the assembly of your homebuilt vehicle were from salvage, you must provide the VIN # of the vehicle that the parts came from. In my case, I had a new crate motor from Ford and a new tranny from Tremec, so the receipts were sufficient; additionally, my car was already previously registered.

PM me with your email and I can give you the name of an outfit in Rochester that may be able to help.

[Jim Kellogg]

John,
Sorry to hear of your problems getting a VIN. DMV officials must be able to tie the s/n of engine and trans to the MSO of your car in order to issue a VIN.

I am certainly no expert in Ford product casting info, but am sure someone here can tell you where the (unique) casting number is on your engine and trans. I had to remove the starter on my 351w - the casting number was on the block above the starter.

Have you gone back to the Sunoco station in CT to see if they can produce the VIN for the engine and trans you purchased from them?

If it is not available, I would take Mike or Ray up on their offers of assistance...

hope this helps,
Jim Kellogg
Breesport, NY

[Power Surge]

Find another station to do the process. They obviously don't know what they are doing for Cobras. As MrMustang pointed out, there would be no VINs on the motor or trans, as Ford doesn't do that (on those years of parts). You could just say that you bought the motor and transmission as "crate parts" through the Sunoco station as if they were ordered through the Motorsport catalog. But yeah, find another station that has a clue.

[Jim Kellogg]

Just to clarify bit....
I am positice that the unique "casting numbers" will suffice, if the engine and trans were manufactured prior to the time vin stamping (on the part) began.

All you should need to do is record the casting numbers on your application. They will double check the numbers, then tie them to the new VIN the state will issue for your "custom vehicle".

You simply need for someone (hopefully on this forum) to tell you where the casting numbers are located on your particular year/engine and trans combo.

As I mentioned earlier, my engine casting number was above the starter. I found a source online (forget where, I just googled to find it) that decoded the casting mark, which will give you the date, plant and particulars about the engine and trans. My SPF has a Ford Motorsports crate motor, for which I had the proper receipts. I still needed the casting number on the application...

Should be a relatively simple fix for your problem :-)

Jim Kellogg
Breesport, NY

[UKjohnnycobra]

Thanks for the replies guys...

I live in Brewster NY which ia about 40 mins from Elmsford. I doubt if I can relocate my case to a different centre as i was assigned to Elmsford by Albany. Also (stupid me, mr innocent I had a handful of receipts so I thought I was home and dry) I already told the investigating officer that the engine/tranny are used units (not crate) so I probably can't go back and change my mind. Further problem, I bought the engine over a year ago and the Sunoco station has now changed hands, so I can't even speak to them. I'll look for Unique numbers at the weekend. The investigators said they couldn't find any and I suppose they know where to look. If that doesn't work, I'm f*cked I think. But at least with some of the information you have given me I might be able to challenge them. Nicely of course

I know this is getting a bit detailed but:

If I have to trace a salvaged engine back to original VIN, can that donor car still be on the road? ie if my neighbor puts a new/rebuilt engine in his Mustang, can I use his old one? Or will they then go back to him an demand to see the paperwork on his new engine and just pass the problem on to him

Could I put in some old clunker engine for the registration and then replace it with my good one after I get a VIN? Is the engine number ever checked after registration (ie for inspection)

mrmustang, how can I tell if the engine is a C block or J block?
Thanks again to all of you I really appreciate your help!!

John

[Woodz428]

There will be NO vin # on the block. Even if it were a J, Ford was only sporadicly stamping partial VIN #s and it may have been dependant on the assembly plant. I have had hundreds of 'stangs/Cougars from that era and the only ones I could count on having VINs were the CJ's and that was only from '69 up. I would have to look at my casting book, but I don't believe there is any difference between the J and the C block. The heads have a unique casting #, but the blocks most likely have the same #. There is probably no way, especially without any VIN#s, to trace it back to any car on the road....or in a junkyard for that matter.

[Jim Kellogg]

WDZ is correct about trying to find a VIN on your block.

Just get the (unique) casting numbers (I am sure Woodz can tell you where they should be located). From my conversations with NYS DMV, they are really working "forward" on this issue - to protect you....
If the engine or trans ends up missing from your newly titled "custom" vehicle, they can trace them back to the VIN they will issue. I don't believe they are trying to find "stolen" engines....

Serves the same purpose as manufacturers "VIN stamping" current production powertrains.

Enter these numbers (and corresponding years) on your VIN application form. You should be good to go on your next visit.

Jim Kellogg
Breesport, NY

[UKjohnnycobra]

Well I finally passed the inspection. The cops said they should fail it as there were no ID numbers and they insisted that there should be. But the gave me a VIN number anyway. So I now have my registrtion, plates, sticker etc and tonight went out for my first legal run. Thanks to all who replied to my post!

[Jim Kellogg]

Yes!!! Enjoy your ride.
Jim Kellogg
Breesport, NY

[JCoop]

Congratulations!

I have a buddy who just bought a SPF with a 2004 registration in NC. I wonder how this one needs to be handled for a smog-exempt NY regi...

I'll post a new thread when it gets here.