NJ Registration question

[NJBIGBLOCK]

I sent in for the NJ DMV "package" for titling and registering kit cars (reconstructed vehicles) It said that the year of the engine used was what determined the emissions requirement of the vehicle. It also said that "proof" of the engine year would have to be presented. Are they talking about the engine code number (such as D0VE ,ford 1970) or the VIN# on the block which I am told matches the plate on the vehicle and the year ? Also , what type of bill of sale do you need to prove ownership/year of the motor? Has anyone in NJ gone through this process? Thanks

[mrmustang]

Yes, NJ DMV is looking for proof of engine casting number (IE: D2AE, C9AE, C6AE, etc). During the initial safety inspection they will verify the casting number on the engine. A regular "generic" receipt between buyer and seller will do. Follow the instructions in the package to the letter and you will do just fine.

Bill S.

[Sal Gerace]

NJBIGBLOCK ,What department of the DMV did you request the package from? Do you have a phone number or contact info? Thanks, Sal.

[Archrms]

Sal,

Call the NJDMV Central Office in Trenton at 888/486-3339 and ask for the "Kit Car Package".

[Sal Gerace]

I called yesterday and spoke to them briefly. The person I spoke to was very nice. He told me they they go by the year that the car was made, not the engine. I ordered the package. I have heard in the past that the engine decided the tile year. Does anyone have any more info on that? Thanks all for the info so far, Sal.

[Cashburn]

Titled as year built. Emissions standards by year of block.

[Sal Gerace]

That makes sence, Thanks!

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Titled as year built. Emissions standards by year of block.

I'll second this one.

[NJBIGBLOCK]

I have the NJ DMV information and it says and i quote" Reconstructed motor vehicles equipped with a NEW engine and Chassis will be treated as a new motor vehicle and must comply with all emission requirements applicable to the model year in which the vehicle is initially titled. My Translation: If the car is new and the engine is new you have to pass current regulations in the year you title the vehicle.
QUOTE:
Reconstructed motor vehicles equipted with a USED or OLDER model engines shall comply with all emission requirements applicable to the model year of the engine. DOCUMENTATION FROM THE MANUFACTURER OF THE ENGINE OR A DEALER AUTHORIZED BY THE MANUFACTURER WILL BE NECESSARY TO ESTABLISH PROOF OF THE YEAR OF THE ENGINE.
What I had origionally asked was weather or not they used the cast date code such as D0VE for a 1970 ford block or if they use the numbers STAMPED INTO THE BLOCK which I am told correspond to the year of the vehicle the engine was put into. If anyone knows the answer to this I would appreciate it. Much thanks to all for helping out.

[Sal Gerace]

Ford engines do not have the vin number on the block just the part number and also a date stamp. Part number would be the Dove marking that you mentioned. There is also a date stamp found under the oil filter block plate. It will read something like "6A21". Translated January the 21st 1966. It sounds like they want proof of the translation through the manufacturer. My engine builder has it all broken down on the paperwork of the engine he sent so maybe the DMV will accept that. Otherwise maybe a Ford manual from that period? I would like to hear from the others who have done this to see what they experienced also!

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by NJBIGBLOCK

What I had origionally asked was weather or not they used the cast date code such as D0VE for a 1970 ford block or if they use the numbers STAMPED INTO THE BLOCK which I am told correspond to the year of the vehicle the engine was put into. If anyone knows the answer to this I would appreciate it. Much thanks to all for helping out.

The NJ DMV will check the casting number of the block to determine the year the block is supposed to emulate. If the Dove block is cast with "C5AE-D" (1965) then the NJ DMV will treat it as a 1965 "vintage" block and your emissions will be based on the 1965 standards (simple pvc in one valve cover into the back of your carb base). If the Dove block has a modern casting of F0AE (1990), then the 90's emissions standards will apply (full closed loop emissions control with catalytic converters required). Either way, there will be no VIN stamping in the block for the NJ DMV inspectors to see. Of course most of them already know that Ford did not stamp a VIN or even a partial VIN in to every block/engine back in the 60-70's. Only the HiPo engines had a partial VIN stamped into them during that time period. It is widely known that Ford did not start stamping engine blocks with partial VIN numbers on a wholesale fashion until the mid 80's.


Can't answer your question any simpler than that.

So what does the casting number on the block you have say?


Bill S.

[NJBIGBLOCK]

I have no engine block as of now. I want to use a pre emission's year block and I wanted to be certain of what I needed before I purchased an engine to build. I want to use a 385 series engine (460) My plan was to get one from an old lincoln and I wanted to be sure of how they are date coded. I am told that their are 2 date codes , one on the side of the block , and another in the lifter valley. According to books I have read ,the one in the lifter galley tells month day and year of the block. The one on the side just states decade and year built. If this is good enough for the inspectors I have no problem but I would rather ask people on this forum with more experience at this than me so that I don't end up building a block I can't use.Does anyone know where I can find a ford date code translation for the 385 series engines? Thanks to all.

[mrmustang]

Any casting code of "C" would be a 1960's block, while a casting code of "D" would be a 1970's block.

The NJ DMV will use the date code as cast on the outside, passenger side of the block........Any internal date codes (never heard of that one other than a basic revision casting code perhaps) are irrelevant to the NJ DMV.


Bill S.

[NJBIGBLOCK]

I finally found my 429 engine and its a D0VE block with C8VE heads. It came with a tunnel ram which i will not use , so as part of the process I pulled it off and found the date code in the lifter valley. It was 0A9 . My book says this means that the block was cast in, 0=1970 , A= January , 9 = day of month.
So it was born Jan 9th 1970. I guess this means that I will have to get out the Southern comfort ,put a party hat on it and wish it a Happy Birthday !
What other ford engines do you think I should invite ? Only big blocks?

[Cashburn]

Make sure your receipt/invoice for the engine/block lists the date code on it. Recent customers going through have relied on paperwork to demonstrate the year of the block as inspectors are not willing to pull starters etc. to verify.

[cbmax]

NJBIGBLOCK,

At the end of the day, the year of manufacture on the block really doesn't matter. I say this because even if you prove your block is emissions exempt you still have to pass modern day safety requirements. What REALLY matters is the year in which you are able to title your car. Again NJ says that your Cobra (or any other kit car) will be titled as the year in which it was manufactured/completed. So this now becomes the date by which you have to abide by when getting your car on the road. Several years ago, people were getting there Cobras titled as '65's by using the services of certain companies that had the cars titled in different states with different (more lax) laws and than having the title transferred back to NJ. The companies that provided these services are no longer in business today as this was illegal.

A Cobra completed in 2007 will be titled as a 2007 reconstructed vehicle. Since your car will not pass 2007 safety requirements (eg. airbags, crash protection, DOT lights etc) you only have one other alternative in the state of NJ. You get what is called collector status registration. With this registration you are exempt from emissions (regardless of what year the engine block was manufactured) and most other modern day safety requirements. The car does have to meet certain minimum safety requirements and be otherwise roadworthy. The catch is that you will be limited to 3000 miles a year. Every two years you will go in for a new registration. They only thing the DMV will check for is a working odometer.

Although 3000 miles doesn't seem like a lot, it should actually be plenty when you think about season for actually driving this type of car, the number of sunny days and length of your average cruise.

So in summary, get what ever motor you like.

CB

[NJBIGBLOCK]

CBMAX, Did you actually go through this process in NJ yourself ? I have seen the Triangle sticker I think you are talking about and I heard of the 3,000 mile limit. I sent in to the DMV for information from them on reconstructed vehicles and it only listed basic safety requirements ,nothing about air bags or anything like that. It did say that emissions were determined by engine's year of manufacture. The information that I got does not mention collector vehicles. The 3000 mile thing I heard from other people was not available to kit cars. This is all very confusing for someone who is trying to do this crap. Has anyone out there actually gone through this process and is certain of what I need to ask for in terms of paperwork from the NJMVC? 3000 miles a year is fine with me as long as its the way that I can get my car on the road.Thanks

[mrmustang]

NJBB,
Cb is only partially correct as the paperwork you have spells out what needs to be done to pass the initial safety inspection and get a letter of determination from the DMV in regards to emissions controls on your car. Yes, you can use whatever engine you want in your car, but a vintage block will get you through the initial safety inspection far easier than a late model block. Why is this so, because with a vintage block they are not going to be looking for emissions controls, while with a late model block you are required by the current regulations to have any and all emissions controls for the year of the engine (this is to pass the initial safety inspection process). If you think the inspectors will not check the casting numbers on the block, beware that the last BB ERA I trailed to the Morristown office was looked over from stem to stern inside, outside and underneath. Through the windows we observed the inspection team with flashlights and inspection mirrors looking for and documenting the block casting number for their records. To put it into the proper perspective, this was a turn key build from ERA. Only after you have passed the initial safety inspection (you do know you need side pipe covers, right?) gotten all of your paperwork in order and sent it down to Trenton (or you can go to the special titles divisional office on State Street in Trenton) for your title to be issued, you can then use the "collectors registration" option to register your car.

Again I do hope you find these smaller clarification points useful.

Bill S.

[cbmax]

Bill,

Thanks for chiming in.

However, I will say again there really is no other option but to go collector status registration ( of course after you complete your title/safety inspection) assuming the car is titled as a modern vehicle. Again NJ will make you title the car in the year in was completed. Other states have different laws. Some of these other states let you title the car in the year the car is supposed to replicate.

From my experience there was really no benefit to a "vintage" block. Unless you can get the vehicle titled as say a 1965 you still have the modern day safety issues to deal with. I cannot comment on whether the process is at all easier with a "vintage" block. I am just saying that there seems to be no real benefit of a vintage block in and of itself.

The real key would be to be able to title the car as a '65 ( or any other year pre-emissions). Since this is all but impossible today in NJ we are again back to the collector car registration and a 3000 mile a year limitation.

So again don't sweat the whole vintage block thing. If you want, get a new Ford crate motor or maybe a new Shelby block. The only thing you will have to deal with is the mileage limitation which really isn't that bad.

CB

PS. I went through the NJ title/registration process in the Fall of 2005. Only other advice I could provide would be to buy a used car which is already titled .

[NJBIGBLOCK]

Thanks Guys ! Its very confusing trying to figure out what the MVC wants from thier literature so its great to talk to someone who has been through the process. I would in any case want to build my own engine as I always have in the past. It is my understanding then that after I get the inspection and pass that i submit my paperwork to the MVC and get my title.Then I simply register it as a "collector car" which is exempt from inspection except for the mileage check. Is this correct? When your car was completed , how did you arrange for the initial inspection? Do they give you a letter or something saying that you have passed to take with you to Trenton?I really love the part about needing covers over my side exhaust ,I went through the same thing at regular inspection with my BB vette years ago, and I asked him if he could show me protective covers on any of the motorcycles I had ever ridden. Of course he could not. Thanks again .