California registration for out of state purchase

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Now you steal one or copy one and your in BIG trouble and facing jail time!

Just tell 'em RodKnock did it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Just tell 'em RodKnock did it.

That'll never work because I'm still, to this day, drawing stick figures for people. An artist I'm not.

[Excaliber]

Pretty slick idea the guy had. He must have scoured the law books for THAT angle. Can you imagine the look on the cops face when the ruling came down? No doubt the legislature is now scrambling to plug the loop hole.

[Gunner]

Okay, I really have a headache now.

The car might be here Thursday, meaning I'll have all the paperwork for DMV, so rather than wait for my appointment I might just show up bright and early Saturday or Monday morning. So I'm actually piling up the paperwork, only to discover that there are some huge contradictions between (1) registering a used vehicle from another state and (2) registering a specially-constructed vehicle. The latter completely assumes that I am the builder, or at least first owner, and I can't tell what DMV is going to want from me.

If I am registering a vehicle with a Massachusetts title and 5500 miles on the clock (thus obviously NOT being some half-constructed monstrosity)... how do I fill out the vehicle construction form 5036? I didn't buy the body, frame, tranny, engine etc. - so do I put down ERA for body and frame, DCE for the engine and whoever for the tranny as if I bought them myself? Or what?

The Registration form 343 also has a general inspection page - does this apply at all, or is it all waived and rolled into the mandatory CHP inspection?

Finally... If the vehicle is registered in Massachusetts, can I drive it here on that registration? If I'd moved here, I could (apparently), but as a resident buying a nonresident vehicle... am I barred from operating the vehicle at all before I have a valid CA registration and/or TOP?

I know this sounds like a repeat of questions already answered, but it's one of those cases where the actual letter of DMV form and website doesn't quite add up for this situation. Clarification from anyone who's done exactly this process would really be appreciated.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by Gunner

Okay, I really have a headache now.

The car might be here Thursday, meaning I'll have all the paperwork for DMV, so rather than wait for my appointment I might just show up bright and early Saturday or Monday morning. So I'm actually piling up the paperwork, only to discover that there are some huge contradictions between (1) registering a used vehicle from another state and (2) registering a specially-constructed vehicle. The latter completely assumes that I am the builder, or at least first owner, and I can't tell what DMV is going to want from me.

If I am registering a vehicle with a Massachusetts title and 5500 miles on the clock (thus obviously NOT being some half-constructed monstrosity)... how do I fill out the vehicle construction form 5036? I didn't buy the body, frame, tranny, engine etc. - so do I put down ERA for body and frame, DCE for the engine and whoever for the tranny as if I bought them myself? Or what?

The Registration form 343 also has a general inspection page - does this apply at all, or is it all waived and rolled into the mandatory CHP inspection?

Finally... If the vehicle is registered in Massachusetts, can I drive it here on that registration? If I'd moved here, I could (apparently), but as a resident buying a nonresident vehicle... am I barred from operating the vehicle at all before I have a valid CA registration and/or TOP?

I know this sounds like a repeat of questions already answered, but it's one of those cases where the actual letter of DMV form and website doesn't quite add up for this situation. Clarification from anyone who's done exactly this process would really be appreciated.

Since the car you are buying was previously and legally registered in another State, I do not believe you will need to complete form 5036. You will need to fill out page 1 of form 343. Page 2 will be completed by the CHP and the DMV.

Update: I missed the fact that the car only has 5,500 miles on it.

No idea whether you can drive the car on the MA registration until you get your TOP.

[decooney]

Gunner,
If you own the car now and it sounds like you do own it, and the motor truly is a Danbury motor, chances are it has a milder cam in it. They typically don't go too radical on their motor for longevity purposes.. There is a point to this, and it could be a good thing. I've done both vanilla SPCNS without SB100 for an out of state car AND another ground built SB100 Cobra along with others for myself. Also, have been through the whole corrective re-title process too, and tried making that car a vanilla SPCNS first (just to try it again) before going SB100; but it did not work that time due to a large cam but it just would not pass the idle test, but passed the 2500rpm test with flying colors; close but no cookie even with other tweaks. In any case, there is still a small chance of hope of getting the car titled to start as just a SPCNS (no SB100 yet). Its worth a try, and it gets the paperwork started before 2010, and in the system. If you want to try it, start the registration process as an out of state transfer / Special construction (SPCNS) soon, don't wait, providing all the SEPERATE receipts from the different places who provided the parts; follow me?; must be seperate. As others have indicated, it just can't be a mfg car from one place. It has to be a home constructed car, at one point of origin, not a real mfg. I hope they gave you the receipts for the parts with the car. This is key. You follow the same exact starting process of VIN/part receipt verification at CHP, then Brake/Lamp/Smog cert, and the BAR smog test. If the car is a 428 and tuned really well, you might be able to get it to pass with the right carb and tune on it. I've gotten through twice, but it was not easy. With a smaller cam, new motor, precise tuning you can squeak by on a milder 428 cam/car setup. It can be done. If you can get through the BAR smog check, just title it as SPCNS for now. Then, in January, just wait in line for your SB100 number, and they will reissue the title/reg again with the new exemption status. It may be hard to get the 30-day pass, some DMV locations/clerks are clamping down on that temporary permit now, and only issuing 1-2 day permits.

Since you have time between now and Jan, you might give this a try to get started. Did you get the parts receipts from the prior owner, or copies?

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by decooney

Gunner,
If you own the car now and it sounds like you do own it, and the motor truly is a Danbury motor, chances are it has a milder cam in it. They typically don't go too radical on their motor for longevity purposes.. There is a point to this, and it could be a good thing. I've done both vanilla SPCNS without SB100 for an out of state car AND another ground built SB100 Cobra along with others for myself. Also, have been through the whole corrective re-title process too, and tried making that car a vanilla SPCNS first (just to try it again) before going SB100; but it did not work that time due to a large cam but it just would not pass the idle test, but passed the 2500rpm test with flying colors; close but no cookie even with other tweaks. In any case, there is still a small chance of hope of getting the car titled to start as just a SPCNS (no SB100 yet). Its worth a try, and it gets the paperwork started before 2010, and in the system. If you want to try it, start the registration process as an out of state transfer / Special construction (SPCNS) soon, don't wait, providing all the SEPERATE receipts from the different places who provided the parts; follow me?; must be seperate. As others have indicated, it just can't be a mfg car from one place. It has to be a home constructed car, at one point of origin, not a real mfg. I hope they gave you the receipts for the parts with the car. This is key. You follow the same exact starting process of VIN/part receipt verification at CHP, then Brake/Lamp/Smog cert, and the BAR smog test. If the car is a 428 and tuned really well, you might be able to get it to pass with the right carb and tune on it. I've gotten through twice, but it was not easy. With a smaller cam, new motor, precise tuning you can squeak by on a milder 428 cam/car setup. It can be done. If you can get through the BAR smog check, just title it as SPCNS for now. Then, in January, just wait in line for your SB100 number, and they will reissue the title/reg again with the new exemption status. It may be hard to get the 30-day pass, some DMV locations/clerks are clamping down on that temporary permit now, and only issuing 1-2 day permits.

Since you have time between now and Jan, you might give this a try to get started. Did you get the parts receipts from the prior owner, or copies?

As far as I know, the State of CA no longer allows new SPCNS registrations based on smog. I could be wrong.

My understanding has always been that an out of state car that was legally registered could be brought into CA as a complete car and registered under SB100. The only caveat is that the car must have more than 7,500 miles on it (see this thread Daytona Coupe by Shell Valley for sale).

Gunner, you should validate this with the DMV. You may have to go back and get separate receipts and complete the statement of construction....or put some miles on the car quickly.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Gunner

Finally... If the vehicle is registered in Massachusetts, can I drive it here on that registration? If I'd moved here, I could (apparently), but as a resident buying a nonresident vehicle... am I barred from operating the vehicle at all before I have a valid CA registration and/or TOP?

It appears you have 20 days, if you're a CA resident.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr9.htm

Also, as for the forms, you can go to the DMV, a SB100-experienced one, and have them guide you through the forms that need filling out. Start the SB100 process immediately upon the car's arrival here in CA. Here's another morsel of info for you, if you haven't seen it already:

http://www.nckcc.com/referenceinfo.html

It appears that in your case, you would use SB-1578 process since your car is already titled and not your car's first title like mine or Doug's (Got The Bug). The process is exactly the same as the SB100 process, but instead of having to show all your separate receipts for engine, tranny, body, etc., the DMV should take the MA registration, along with your bill of sale from the dealership, which the DMV will use to set the value of your car and calculate fees and taxes on.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

As far as I know, the State of CA no longer allows new SPCNS registrations based on smog. I could be wrong.

I believe you're correct sir.

[Got the Bug]

Here's the link to the DMV's page "What You Need to Know Before Buying a Vehicle from Out-of-State."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures...cts/ffvr29.htm

"California law considers any vehicle with less than 7,500 miles on the odometer when acquired by a California resident or business to be a new vehicle. This holds true whether or not the vehicle has been registered in another state. If you acquire a new vehicle from another state, you may not subsequently drive it to accumulate over 7,500 miles to circumvent the law. DMV cannot accept an application to register the vehicle, and you cannot register or operate the vehicle in California."

Unfortunately, this isn't documented anywhere on the DMV's SPCN page.

My USPS delivery guy bought a motorcycle out of state and ran into this issue.

Gunner - You're best bet might be to: 1. Drive the car like hell to get the mileage up. 2. Ask ERA and the party who did the install to provide you with separate receipts for the car and engine/trans/install.

[decooney]

In looking at the rewrite, yeah, it does appear they are now making or referring to SPCNS and the exemption sequence numbers one in the same. However, I wonder if you apply for SPCNS, and can smog the car and get it to pass smog it would be interesting to see if they would register it or not. I would still ask what happens if you can get the car to pass smog.

Yeah, as a "manufactured" car if the car does not have over 7.5k on the odo as an out of state transfer, its not going to happen. I had to return a 1999 Toyota 4Runner sold to me by a dealer in San Jose who bought it from someone in Nevada. They were forced to refund me the whole amount as I could not register it. I wanted to keep it but could not, tried everything. They had to come pick it up on a flatbed as the tires were not allowed to touch the CA road and the vehichle had to be sent out of state again. However, does that same law apply for a custom built SPCNS car, maybe we should look at that, an agree with the above, maybe the SB1578 angle would be the better approach.

In the DMV code book - This sentence below says they "may" be included for pre-reg cars too. If one were stuck wit the car, I would still try it between now and January, nothing to lose.

i.e.
Previously registered vehicles may be included as one of the first 500 applicants in a calendar year and apply for a different model-year determination.

I agree with others have said, get those receipts from ERA and Danbury, etc.

[Gunner]

I have all the receipts for the build. According to the owner (who posted here, over in the NorCal forum), ERA delivered a roller, Danbury delivered the engine, he bought the trans from somewhere then he assembled the whole thing in his garage. So I'm good on that point.

I don't see where a specially-constructed vehicle is subject to the other new-car requirements (e.g. 7500 miles - which appears to apply almost exclusively to new cars that are 49-state smog legal but not California. AFAIK, Fed and CA smog have been completely in sync for many years - you have to go back to the 70s to get into things like 4-speed TransAms that couldn't be sold in CA. I don't see where, for example, I could register a 2006 Mustang with 7,501 miles on it that has had the smog gear removed. It appears to be all about that 49/50 state thing and the vehicle still has to pass year-correct smog testing.

I also have found no trace of the option to register without an SB-100 exemption. The engine is a 1966 date code, but the body and completion is 2006, meaning that it would have to pass current smog limits to qualify. It could have a cam smooth as a glass ball and that wouldn't happen. :P

I'm going to try speaking with DMV today to see if I can get any clarification. In this time of cutbacks and furloughs, I don't much expect to get anyone knowledgeable...

Thanks for the further input. G'damn, this is confusing.

[Got the Bug]

Gunner,

The DMV may be useless in advising, unless you talk to a manager or an SB100 expert. Try to get a specific name of an expert at your local DMV office that is knowledgeable about SB100. Hopefully a fellow Cobra owner in the Sacramento area can help you out.

Since you have all of the receipts, you should be in good shape. I think your best strategy is going to be to ignore the MA registration altogether and complete the statement of construction (Reg 5036). Basically start from scratch.

Caveat. Just my opinion...I only know what I've absorbed from others.

[Got the Bug]

Gunner - Just sent you a PM.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Gunner,

The DMV may be useless in advising, unless you talk to a manager or an SB100 expert. Try to get a specific name of an expert at your local DMV office that is knowledgeable about SB100. Hopefully a fellow Cobra owner in the Sacramento area can help you out.

Since you have all of the receipts, you should be in good shape. I think your best strategy is going to be to ignore the MA registration altogether and complete the statement of construction (Reg 5036). Basically start from scratch.

Caveat. Just my opinion...I only know what I've absorbed from others.

Gunner, the Sacramento area owners know the preferred DMV to go to. If not, then take a run down to Santa Clara and try see Jody the Manager. However, I'm sure there's a closer DMV to you that understands the process. Either go very early AM or very late PM.

I'm not 100% sure, but I bet with the receipts, MSO and other paperwork in the first owner's name, you may have trouble registering it as "new construction." The DMV personnel always checked my receipts and looked at them closely. I would always try to be honest with them about everything.

Lastly, the way I read the "7,500 mile" requirement, it sounds like you may have a problem, but like Doug, I'm no expert.

[Excaliber]

I replaced my speedo at about 8-9,000 on the clock. My new speedo shows 7,000 something, but short of the 7,500. I can document my build from '86. I wonder how they deal with new speedo's in an old car...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I wonder how they deal with new speedo's in an old car...

You're on you honor to tell the truth. C'mon, it's not like you could put the speedo cable in a drill and just run up a few thousand miles while you're eating a sandwich and make the new speedo match the numbers on the old.

[Excaliber]

But I'd rather not! I put in the new speedo to reflect the mileage on my new motor.

Still, that's a great idea!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Still, that's a great idea!

Could be a cottage industry there for you, Ernie. "Will Set Your New Speedometer to Match Your Old Without Opening the Case!" In fact, you could even do it unattended. Just fire up the drill, read "the speed that you're driving," divide that by the number of miles you want add, then just put the drill on a lamp timer and head on out. By the time you get home, your work is done.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

You're on you honor to tell the truth. C'mon, it's not like you could put the speedo cable in a drill and just run up a few thousand miles while you're eating a sandwich and make the new speedo match the numbers on the old.

Now he's advocating illegal tampering of a car's speedo.

The sales receipt from the dealer will in all likelihood state 5,500 miles. What now?