289 progress........

[Ivygreen65]

Jeff, if you don't mind me asking, where did you find the alternator plug? I have the correct alternator / fan / pulley for my 289, but have yet to find the correct wiring & plug.

[ALF]

Do you've a source for the alternator fan/pulley?
If yes, please PM - Thanks

[LMH]

Alternator plugs show up from time to time in eBay, usually with their charging harness.
You might also try this: Wiring Harnesses - Narragansett Reproductions - Wiring Harnesses and car restoration supplies
and see if they have the correct plug.
Correct pulleys are extremely rare. John at CompClassics had one for sale a few years ago. Contact him and see if he still has it. Other than his, I've never seen one for sale.
Larry

[1985 CCX]

Larry is correct...

The plug is like "Hens Teeth" they used to be reproduced however my source no long makes them. Had a few then sold them as I thought I could find more.

The pulley I am told is even harder, its a press fit one piece unit. There was a guy making them and was told he is also no longer going to make them. And his last few in process spoken for. Also = $$$$$$$$$$

Also, the Autolite stamp is not correct for 289 cars....

Sorry, these things are getting harder to find than one may think...
Apologize for being of no help.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Larry is correct...

The plug is like "Hens Teeth" they used to be reproduced however my source no long makes them. Had a few then sold them as I thought I could find more.

The pulley I am told is even harder, its a press fit one piece unit. There was a guy making them and was told he is also no longer going to make them. And his last few in process spoken for. Also = $$$$$$$$$$

Also, the Autolite stamp is not correct for 289 cars....

Sorry, these things are getting harder to find than one may think...
Apologize for being of no help.

Yes, the "AUTOLITE" stamp is not correct for the 289s but I wanted to add some "bling"

I am working on new plugs with 12" pigtails to allow integration into existing harnesses so the joint can be hidden under the wrapping.

I had these made 20 years ago for Ford and Thunderbird alternator harnesses complete with all wiring, plugs and wrapping. They are long since sold but the company that molded the plug still has the mold so we are talking.

I come across the pulleys and often have a couple on hand. The are the "C3SF" stamp units and may not be exact for a Cobra but 98% of onlookers will have no idea.........

[LMH]

The C3SF alternator was used on the last few Cobras. I don't know exactly what chassis numbers though. The stamp is purple in color. I can post a photo later when I can get to my computer.
Though Jeff may not like us deviating from his thread!
Larry

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by LMH

The C3SF alternator was used on the last few Cobras. I don't know exactly what chassis numbers though. Larry

Larry’s comment is based on a picture I sent him showing typical factory ink stampings on a 1963/64 type alternator. The only picture of any legible original stamping I had was that of a Thunderbird service assembly. The alternator in the photo was not a Cobra part. The confusion is my fault. Sorry Larry.

For general information, I have never seen any evidence that Shelby American substituted an off specification alternator on CSX2201 and later street and race cars. The O.E.M. Cobra assembly would have not been something anybody was likely to pick up locally as a service part. I would strongly suspect that any assembly on any car after it left Shelby American was installed by somebody besides Shelby American. In addition to Cobras CSX2201 and later street and race a few complete engines sold by Shelby American also included them; including at least one engine for one of the Sunbeam LeMans Tigers.

The May 31, 1965 Shelby parts list has entrees for both the production and service units (no Thunderbird units are listed):

C3MF-10300-A Alternator Ford $59.29 retail $32.61 dealer (Cobra production assembly)

C3MY-10346-A Alternator Ford $59.35 retail $37.54 dealer (Ford service assembly)

The December 23, 1966 Shelby parts list only has the Ford service assembly units (no Thunderbird units are listed) listed:

C3MY-10346-A Alternator Ford $58.30 retail


From my electrical notes on CSX2201 and later cars:
Assembly, Alternator, 1964 model year design created for a specific high performance 427 c.i.d. engine Mercury and Ford charging system option package. FoMoCo® C3MF-10300-A, GL-23, 40 amp (C3MY-10346-A was the Ford service assembly number) 1964 Mercury but also available in a Ford; includes the fan and sheave assembly C3MF-10344-A (C3MY-10344-A was the Ford fan and sheave assembly service part number), Autolite® GP-351 by 1966. Hunting information on how many 427 powered Mercury and Ford sedans there were in 1964 has not been very successful. Based on what little is posted on the website for 427 Galaxies only early 1964 production cars equipped with transistorized ignition built around December 1963 used this alternator assembly. A subsequent running production change for 427 Galaxies led to the introduction of another alternator assembly. Genuine Cobra production alternators have sheave and fan assemblies different than the known 427 Ford production sheave and fan assemblies and those subassemblies in service alternators or alone as loose service parts. There was at least one version of service sheave and fan assembly not marked with an engineering number. The details that make the assemblies fitted to Cobra unique are believed due to the choice of subcontract machine shop chosen to make the sheave and fan assemblies.

[map]

Try Perogie. http://www.perogie.com/

[Thor maine]

Just a question, if a guy had a Cobra and the alternator went south in and the guy went to the Ford dealer and had a new one put in would it have the "Autolite" stamp on it? And if a guy had a factory correct alternator put on by a Ford dealer is that not a "correct "alternator?

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

Just a question, if a guy had a Cobra and the alternator went south in and the guy went to the Ford dealer and had a new one put in would it have the "Autolite" stamp on it? And if a guy had a factory correct alternator put on by a Ford dealer is that not a "correct "alternator?

Trick questions.

So depending on who is asking and answering, correct can mean 100% like production or a factory authorized replacement. One is new car production historically correct and one is functionally correct could be another way to answer. Ford wise, generators and alternators were used to make new cars under one set of specifications and engineering numbers and service parts were made, numbered, and marked differently. I had my first education on this in 1969 when the service manager of our state's largest Ford dealer showed me how they could tell the difference in production and service electrical parts on new Fords. He directed me to a car in the service bay a customer was making a warrantee claim on. The claim was being denied because the failed part was marked as a service part. The manager told the customer to take the car to whoever installed the service part and get them to fix their problem but he wasn’t going to charge Ford for post production repairs the Ford production plant didn't do.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by LMH

The C3SF alternator was used on the last few Cobras. I don't know exactly what chassis numbers though. The stamp is purple in color. I can post a photo later when I can get to my computer.
Though Jeff may not like us deviating from his thread!
Larry

As Dan stated in his previous post and after he and I discussed it offline, the C3SF alternator on a Cobra is incorrect. Mark IV and Dan are correct that the C3MF part is the correct alternator. Now I'll have to change my stamp!
Larry

[LMH]

There was, if I'm not mistaken, two different case finishes to original Cobra alternators. Smooth and as-cast. Possibly different manufacturers?
Larry

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by LMH

There was, if I'm not mistaken, two different case finishes to original Cobra alternators. Smooth and as-cast. Possibly different manufacturers?
Larry

Exterior case shell surfaces right out of the permanent die casting molds = Cobra production.

As cast exterior surfaces on the case shells, shot or some other hard media blasted, tumbled with abrasive media, or combinations of any exterior condition (for example let’s say front case as cast and rear case shot blasted) = typical service parts. Many of the brand new 1963 model year alternator assemblies I have held in my hands came out of boxes from one of the Ford authorized remanufacturers. The implication is that the Ford authorized remanufacturers had stocks of individual parts and they assembled whatever they needed to fill an order from Ford. Evidence of this type scenario showed up in 1975 when I ordered new (not remanufactured, I had the choice of both) rocker arm and shaft assemblies at Woody Anderson Ford for my 1967 Shelby GT500. The “new” assemblies were sold under the original 1967 model year listing but came in boxes from a Ford authorized remanufacturer. The part identification included a manufacturing date several days AFTER I ordered the parts and more than a week before I received them. Ford apparently literally had the supplier build two assemblies up after I ordered them.

Different rebuilders often used different case rework procedures and small parts to make up complete assemblies. Once the as die cast exterior is changed it can't be reworked to look day one again, not 100%.

[1985 CCX]

Process under way, gathering flux and solder

[1985 CCX]

Also picking this up from John Bessey!
Great part!
Great service!

[LMH]

Nice!
Larry

[CompClassics]

Thank you, Jeff!

[Thor maine]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Process under way, gathering flux and solder

Does it have to be "flux and solder" form 1963?

[1795]

Yes, only leaded solder will do! None of that new lead free solder

Looking forward to seeing it when it is done.

[1985 CCX]

Leaded solder from the flux capacitor

Will try to since up this weekend if the weather i.e. Cold holds off.