Newbie - Advice on uprights

[NoShoes]

G'day from New Zealand!

After 20 years of procrastination I have finally decided to make a start and sent my $200 of to Cobra Restorers.... I have the first of what I am sure will be many questions (and I am sorry, but at this stage there is not much I can offer back as advice and help...). I have decided to build a 427 styled car with a fair degree of original details - chassis, alloy body, cockpit layout, knock-offs that is intended for road use and maybe a couple of friendly track days per year.

Can anyone offer any advice/thoughts on uprights? Particularly with respect to Cobra Restorers, Superformance/Shelby, or Kirkham?

Thanks for your help!

Marc

[Three Peaks]

Well, since none of the suspension pieces are on the Cobra restorer's drawings, you are pretty much on your own on this one.
The uprights are a pretty intricate piece to build and really don't lend themselves to a scratch build unless you are a reasonably skilled machinist and/or welder and fabricator. You may need to contact George Petrus, Cobra Restorers, or someone else for those pieces.
The suspension pieces are available from Kirkham, Shelby, Cobra Restorers, and a few other places but the prices are pretty steep - unless Kirkham just happens to have another Scratch n Dent sale....
Of all the pieces on a scratch build, the suspension pieces you will have the most invested in - in more ways than one.....

Bob

[NoShoes]

Thanks Bob,

I am looking forward to the challenge of building the chassis and the body but I intend to buy the uprights, so I guess what I am really asking is any advice on the various commercial offerings? Over here Jag parts are reasonably expensive and Mustang II's are not that common, so I was basing my rough budget on Cobra Restorers prices for the components. I may sound soft, but I'd rather put money into suspension and brakes before horsepower

Cheers,
Marc

[LMH]

I might be able to help you out with uprights. I'll see if I can nail down a price and let you know. 289 or 427?
Larry

[NoShoes]

Hey Larry - thanks - I'd appreciate a price, noting that I believe I need to sort out some paperwork over here before I can proceed. I understand that I need to get approval in principle for my plans before I start to cut metal. Either way a price will get me started towards firming up on component selection.

Cheers,
Marc

[Three Peaks]

Nick Acton can also line you up with many of the parts you need for the suspension. Check out Acton Customs or email Mickmate on this forum.

Bob

[NoShoes]

Thanks again Bob - Nick found me on the introductions page...turns out he's a past Kiwi....

Cheers,
Marc

[LMH]

Hey Marc
Are you going to do a 427 or a 289 model? The uprights are different.
Larry

[NoShoes]

Hey Larry,

427 for me - I know it isn't the same but I used to drive a Triumph Spitfire with a transverse leaf spring rear...entertaining...and that was with a 1300cc! Much as I love the look of a 289 I think it has to be a 427.

Cheers,
Marc

[mickmate]

I have most parts in stock and all available. Competitively priced I might add. Shipping an assembled rear upright to NZ with no slow boat cheap shipping options available..........ouch.

[NoShoes]

Originally Posted by mickmate

I have most parts in stock and all available. Competitively priced I might add. Shipping an assembled rear upright to NZ with no slow boat cheap shipping options available..........ouch.

Thanks mate - I'll send you an email. I might be in the US later in the year...if I only pack a tooth brush, I might be able to bring back some pieces....

[alfy65]

Hi Marc,
I used the Cobra Restorer prints and got pretty good results..changed the rear frame suspension points..Made all the front control arms...pretty much fun and a long project so far...Getting the wiring done now then on to engine install..check out my gallery and welcome aboard..
Al

[NoShoes]

Hey Al,

Thanks mate - its encouraging to hear you're having success from the blueprints! The chassis looks fantastic. I hope we can stay in touch. Cheers, Marc

[Dominik]

I should have 2 (if not more) rear upright castings here in Cape Town.
I verify in the week. Also, I can get them cast here, or in Germany. But only from 10 pieces up.

You want some fries, I mean drawings with that? We can talk.
PM me. Your timing is right. I get mine machined in about 3 weeks, but for another wheel bearing.

Generally, however, I advise to use and alter what you have on the local market.
Especially in the US I would contact the chassis/suspension builders and use their control arms. It's so much cheaper.

Unless you like originality...

[1985 CCX]

Mickmate aka: actoncustom.com

[NoShoes]

Thanks Guys - Thanks for the advice and help...Mickmate has already given me lots to ponder over. My plans have arrived and I am going preparing my docs for design approval. I am some time away from buying uprights, but I do need to settle on what I will use as I need to submit the suspension design. I am not overly hung up on originality but I am assuming that an original spec frame and uprights will result in reasonable suspension geometry on a reasonable frame. I am also assuming that if I go Jag or other then there will be a fair bit of redesign required to get decent geometry?

Cheers,
Marc

[Dominik]

Alfy:

"I used the Cobra Restorer prints and got pretty good results..changed the rear frame suspension points"

What did you change?

Marc:
Depending on the control arm length XJ vs 427 (front) you may not have to change too much. But you inquired for the rear?
The rear upright is about 105mm wide where the lower control arm attaches. How wide is the XJ?
I get you the position of the hub center too, but you need to add a bracket for an upper control arm! Nick has a mounting for a Watt's linkage, which is too weak for that pupose but maybe a good start?

Nick:
Didn't you tinker about using the XJ upright in the rear? That may go with Alfy's redesign.

The 427 layout is a bit tricky where the track rod mounts on the chassis, but a very well sorted design for suspension behaviour.

Dom, Cape Town

[NoShoes]

Thanks Dom - my original question was about front and rear, but we ended up talking about rears.

In hindsight I probably didn't ask my question properly - I am interested in what uprights people use and for those who have used original spec pieces and geometry how does the car handle corners?

I understand an XKE suspension is about right but XJ6 is too wide and needs modification. Also it only has a lower control arm, so I expect the inboard pickup points must be quite different. I have heard that getting a good slippery diff ratio is hard over here as well. MII and T/bird are not that common over here so using them will still require importing. I need to finish my pricing comparision for original spec vs reconditioned Jag or imported reconditioned Ford - if it comes out within the ballpark I figure I might as well go original spec.

I have spent years pondering chassis design and looking at JBL and Robnell (Australian) for inspiration due to their torsional rigidity and expected handling advantage. Ironically at the end of the day I have elected to go original style chassis and it's a little hard to explain why - it just feels right... As far as originality goes I have no interest in correct spec hose clips, but I do want a car that is a fair representation of the original.

After saying all that I appreciate everyones comments and thoughts - particularly those who have gone through this before.

Cheers,
Marc

[mickmate]

I did play with Jag stuff and even welded some mounting tabs on the top of a rear Jag hub. The Jag geometry is nice and you can make your own arms with the correct length for the track you need. I have also fabricated uprights to take a newer bearing and flange (C4 Vette) like you did with your castings Dom. Marc check out the results of last years optima battery shootout and that answers your question on original geometry. Ol hot shoe Bruce in 3190 cleaned up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVt2Wp9VRX0
The suspension in these cars needs to be understood and set up correctly and it works magnificently.

[LMH]

Maybe a study of ERA's rear suspension might yield some ideas. I was really impressed when I drove one.
Just a thought.
Larry