Canuck 289 scratch build

[old willy]

Hey everybody,

Thanks so much for all the good numbers and the work to get them for me, it means a lot to me.
I had to take a "honey do" break and build a water barrel cart for my little garden tractor. The garden is in and it does need watering and our ridiculous size rain barrel is about 120 feet from the garden. To be honest it was always on the list of uses for said tractor and I am happy with it. It was good welding practice too and all the stuff I had been saving to make it from is now used up and out of my way. win, win, win

I am currently hanging out in the basement doing some large suspension layout drawings and fiddling with the numbers.

Jim given your sizes without the lowering blocks and factoring in for the tire sizes I see the front would come in about 6 1/2" and that seems to fit right in with the rest of the info I am seeing here. A slight bit of a rake on the frame too.

I am going to run 205/70R15 all the way around and they are about 26.3 inches varying a bit for final tire pressures and tire brands. My current rear figure looks to be 7 1/8" if I want to run the lower arm parallel to the ground (mostly always a good idea) and use the stock inner mount location too. So that all looks promising but it is going to depend on where I need the static roll center to be and a couple of other points to ponder.

As for the front, my mock up had it a bit on the low side so I will move it up into the 7 inch range too as I have a bit more freedom in the mounting locations.
I think if I can shoot for 6 to 7ish inches front and back with it being acceptable to have the back slightly higher than the front, I think it will be OK.

This really is just a street car, "fast road" as the Brits say, so I need the extra ground clearance and some reasonable, stable handling characteristics.
I am sure I will spend the next few days tweaking my layout lines but I am confident it will work out in the end.

Thanks again for all the help, I will post some more pictures when I have something to show.

Cheers!

[old willy]

Well time for another update………

Been kind of busy here at Sandcroft Acre for a while trying to get all the spring/summer things done, the garden has been a real frustration for us with late frosts then drought followed by deer eating everything that is growing and now things are perhaps too wet, never mind the ongoing covid thing yak, yak, yak.
To be honest my lovely wife handles most of the garden stuff, I would most likely kill everything, I just try to do what she asks me to do.

Oh ya! This is supposed to be a car forum so I had better get on to that part.

I have not done much more in the way in the way of actual metal fabrication on the chassis.

I have done a bit of research for my next parts buying adventures and think I will go with Shell Valley for my windshield assembly needs, some reading indicates folks seem to be happy with them, the FFR ones are cheaper but seem prone to cracking ( it could be bad installs too)

I considered one from Brasscraft in England, I am sure they are beautiful but buy the time you crate and ship it here it’s twice the price. Reading between the lines I would guess Shell Valley supplies a bunch of windshields to other vendors via their wholesale company International Wholesale.
If anyone has any different ideas about windshields I would like to hear them.

I was able to do my layout drawings in ½ scale ( still need a long table) and then move on to the finer details and full size drawings for the control arms. A bit of a challenge and compromises always need to be made given I am using existing hubs and uprights and wanted to use the original rear lower arm mountings as they are nicely incorporated into the rear tower assembly.


I had more freedom with the front mounts but the uprights have their own unique challenges too. But the rear is the biggest challenge, trying to get an upper arm into the design and the coil over shock working within the confines of the original suspension area.

I believe I have come up with a workable design although my roll centers are a bit lower than I had in mind originally, I have done my best and am confident it will work. I will add the mountings for anti-roll bars front and rear but not add any bars until I drive the car without them first. I would prefer to not have them for ride quality reasons but if I need to I can add them.

I was hoping to be building arms and such this weekend but I am lacking a 1 inch cutter I ordered, but it is coming ( I hope), it’s one of the drawbacks to living next to the middle of nowhere, you can't just pop out and pick up a 1 inch annular cutter, fortunately you can order one.

So here are a few of crappy pictures of my drawings, a bit hard to see on the brown kraft paper but I needed really long paper and that was in stock at the dollar store so.....











Next time something in metal....I hope

P.S. I noticed on posting this that I have made a revision to the lower arm layout since I took this so it won't look exactly like this as upon reflection it seemed over complicated for the loads that will be involved. Compromises, compromises..........

[map]

Originally Posted by old willy

Thanks for the picture Monsieur map, that is just a classic garage shot, call it "dust and passion" or something, I did not recognize your handle at first but when I looked again I do recognize that project and have been checking in on your progress from time to time but honestly did not remember that picture. Any new updates on your excellent build? Yours has been one of my inspirations to go the scratch build route. I do see the family resemblance there for sure, I have never seen a Mr. Bruce body in person although before I found this body that was going to be my first choice, I am told he does nice work.

Bruce used my Allied body for his molds, my body was made in 1965 by Parish Plastics in Pittsburgh 1 of 3 known to exist.

[MasterAnubis]

Howdy,
Did you get all of Chucks drawings?
I'm about to drop the hammer on his drawings for the 427. Scratch building the chassis seams like a frustratingly incredible time.

[old willy]

Hey MasterAnubis,

Yes I did get all Chucks 289 drawings, if you are planning to build they are incredibly good, I don't think you could find better. I bet AC's drawings were not this good back in the day. He has also has added a nice bunch of notes and suggestions. He does own a real 427 so getting the measurements right would not be a problem. It may seem like a lot of money for them but honestly when you see the work that has gone into them you won't be disappointed.
It is not frustrating at all, just measure out the pieces, cut and weld....OK a bit more involved than that....... but honestly that's how the originals were made, by some Brits, in a big shed with arc welders and torches.....Go for it!

[old willy]

Hello all!

I just wanted to keep adding quick updates as I said I would.

I was hoping to be further on but being summer it is also the season when my beautiful wife wants me to get some other projects done( me too), the never ending house renno continues although getting materials is a still bit of a challenge, we were hoping to do some stone veneer on the lower part of the house to compliment the other changes we have made but the delivery date estimate on the veneer went from 4 to 8 weeks to 8 to 12 weeks after we ordered, kind of crappy but everything just seems to be behind these days, myself included……

I did get to laying out my suspension arm brackets out of some .188 flat stock, cut them out and cleaned up ready to use. I them switched my attention to the tubular element of the arms. I am using 1 inch .120 wall DOM tube and want to “ fishmouth” it nicely together.



Once upon a time I did have a hole saw type tube notcher I built in another life, but I did not bring it along for this one, always figuring I would make another when the time came.
Well I have a better tool collection now and came up with a different way hoping this would work for the 1 inch and later when I get into the .750 tube for the inner structure.

I have become aware of these magic things called annular cutters, I also have a mini mill......... so I ordered a 1 inch annular cutter with a ¾ inch Weldon shank. I then found a ¾ mill holder ( cheaper) for my little mill. My old 1941 Logan lathe has the same taper as my mill so I just knocked it into the headstock and trimmed it off until the Weldon shank flats lined up with the locking screw. Then into the mill with the cutter.




I tried my small mill vice but it just could not do it so out came the full size vice on the mini mill, yes it looks a bit crazy but after a couple of tests I figured out where the speed should be and how much I can cut at once, then it went fairly well.
I am sure the thinner wall .750 tube will be much easier to cut but the 1 inch is doable and the resulting joint is perfect.




I am making a jig out of the old base plate from my 105 bender, sure glad I did not send it for recycling yet. I just want something that will hold the bracket centers parallel to each other that I can quickly modify to make the next pair of arms.
And that is the reality of this project as I am only making 4 pairs of arms here, there is no need to get carried away with production tooling, I can hold things and tack them and check the fit one at a time, I just want things to be even in the end.




So that is it, I am getting ready to start welding the rear lower arms together. Don’t mind the bit of surface rust, things have gotten crazy humid in the last month and I am trying to keep it out of the garage.
I will clean up the weld areas ( always) and when I am happy with the end product the arms will be grit blasted and painted with Por15 as will the whole chassis before final assembly.

Hope I can update again soon, be well my friends!

[PDUB]

Keep up the nice work!

[1795]

Coming along nicely. Way to think outside he box and adapt what you have to meet your needs. Keep the updates coming.

Jim

[old willy]

Hey all,
Just a quick update so you don’t start thinking I am dead or something.
I have had a bit of a set back or just too many other things happening in my life to get anything done on the chassis for a few weeks but hopefully that will change soon. It is amazing to me how other people’s decisions and issues can just derail anything you were planning on doing.

The last time I actually got to work on the chassis was the middle or so of August, right before my in-laws came for a visit, right as my sister and her husband decided they needed to sell their house quickly, I finally got the trim to finish the front of the house (covid delays) and then my beautiful bride wanted to finish building the new chicken coop.
This one is much more elaborate (read heavy) than the last one and, oh ya, could it also be mobile…..mmmmmm, sure, I guess. It is amazing how all your time disappears….. Such is life….

As for the chassis, I did get all the rear arms tacked up for a trail fit, and I got the bracket pieces cut for the frame rails. It is very nice to see them in place and next step will be to attach the frame mounts and the lower arms, then mock up the upper arm mount enough to move the suspension through its travel range and “real world” check the camber change.
It’s been a long time since I fabbed something like this so part of my brain still doesn’t completely trust what my calculations and scale layout tells me.

So hopefully I can be back to chassis work in the next week, I would really like to see this frame sitting on the floor, on its wheels, at some point soon, if for no other reason than some inspiration to keep me focused.

So till then here are a couple of pictures of the rear arms








And the traveling gear for a chicken coop, I really do like to over complicate things, don't I........

[1795]

[quote=old willy;1497257]Hey all,
Just a quick update so you don’t start thinking I am dead or something.

Damn, it might be too late for me to cancel the flowers I just ordered for your service.

Looking pretty nice Willy. Life always gets in the way, it's just the way that it is. Your job is to allow it to only allow it to make small diversions that allow you to keep getting back on the path.

I hope that your shop is heated, that cold Canadian chill will be upon you soon.

Jim

[old willy]

[quote=1795;1497258]

Originally Posted by old willy

Hey all,
Just a quick update so you don’t start thinking I am dead or something.

Damn, it might be too late for me to cancel the flowers I just ordered for your service.

Looking pretty nice Willy. Life always gets in the way, it's just the way that it is. Your job is to allow it to only allow it to make small diversions that allow you to keep getting back on the path.

I hope that your shop is heated, that cold Canadian chill will be upon you soon.

Jim

Ha, ha, Ha, Thanks Jim,

I thought the flowers were a nice touch

Still trying to get back to it , but yes the garage is heated, when we built it about 10 years ago that was one of my big needs, living up here in the north and all.
I went with the heated slab option, the best hangers I worked in back in the day had heated floors, way nicer on the feet and legs at the end of the day.
It is also fairly efficient, I don't keep it tee shirt weather in there in the winter but if you come in from outside you would think "it's pretty warm in here" but if you take off your coat and stand still for awhile you would find it,s not really "room temperature" but if you are moving and working it's great. And other than sand blasting and painting stuff I can get a lot done in the winter. I hope that holds true for this year.

[old willy]

Hey all,

Just a quick question if anybody knows.
The 289 cars have a cast lower cooling elbow that comes off the rad and passes through the suspension tower on it's way to the water pump. It also appears there is a temp sensor or switch installed in a brass cover on top held on by 3 bolts.

The big question is where did they source this from? Is it from some other British or American car, or is it unique to the slabside cars?

Kind of like those y shaped exhaust manifolds. Just want to know what I should be keeping my eyes open for.

Thanks!

[MAStuart]

Here you go. My help for the day! https://www.csxparts.com/p-595-radia...sting-289.aspx

[old willy]

Well it looks like the part in question is called an otter switch, that was the name of the company that made them" Otter " and they are still in business today making switches.
The one in the 289 was also found in Jag XK series and E types as well as others I am sure. Today it looks like you can get a 3 hole plate that is threaded to take a more conventional NPT thread thermo switch. I have the cast pipe coming on my recent order from CSX Parts so when I have it in hand I will figure out what I am doing with it.

As for the exhaust mainfolds............

[old willy]

Hello again,
Time for another update! Still busy with other house related stuff but fall is winding down now and things are tucked in for the upcoming winter, Our wood is piled in the basement, the screens are put away, the snow tires are on my wife’s car and I will probably do mine this weekend. Oh boy! Here comes winter again.

I caught up with a friend recently, and he asked how the project was going. I pointed him to our little forum here so if you are reading along…..Hi Bernie!!


I have been making some progress on the car too, I built the rear chassis mounting end of things.
The lower was fairly straight forward as I am using the stock mounting points although I have moved the front one forward about 9/16”. The upper was kind of just a point in space and I needed to fill in the gap so to speak, while also trying to keep everything in the same space as the original transverse leaf and shock parts occupied. I think it is a winner but won’t know for sure till I am doing the panels for the interior and trunk.


After I had the lower mounts tacked in place, I made a little spacer jig to hold the upper arm mount center in relation to the lower mount center. Then some CAD work to figure out the shape of the upper mounts and then layout, cut, bend, check fit, rework and check again, ….tack weld….

I also managed to mock up for the rear shocks with the arms and hubs in place, build some more brackets and the upright tubes and then test fit stuff.

I also ran the suspension through its travel range and checked clearances and camber change. All is looking good so far. I might need to rework one of the cross braces on the lower arm to clear the CV boot but I am also considering different axle and CV joint options.
Mostly I am thinking about the Porsche / VW 930 type joints as they are a bit more compact and frankly better looking and I already have a certain familiarity with them from my previous life. It is not an easy bolt in conversion but might be worth doing, it will depend a lot on how much length change occurs over the suspension travel. Ford has used a tri lobe joint on the inner end that would indicate a lot of length change was required but I am not using their geometry so we will need to wait and see as I did not think to measure that when I was checking other things. More on this later I am sure……


On a side note, We also made a day trip to a fellow about 3 hours away who trades in used MGB stuff. I picked up a good used front right hub as mine had a couple of the outer threads missing somewhere along the way and the more I looked at it the more I just did not like it. Also an early windshield wiper motor assembly, it will most likely need an overhaul ( don’t they all?) and I will change it to 2 speeds, but it is Lucas and the right shape. And happily, an early MGB steering column!
I had the outer tube but not the inner shaft and it did not look like much fun trying to machine one, even with Chuck’s great drawings.
It’s what AC used back in the day so good enough for me. The trip was bit strange though, I had sent the guy a list as I wanted 2 early steering joints as well and even though he said he had them and I pointed a couple out on steering racks, he basically refused to take them off claiming it would take hours “ just buy some new ones “said he, actually strangely he had nothing ready for me when I got there and we had to go looking around his outbuildings and basement for everything, a nice enough guy though and I did get some parts, you live, you learn. Perhaps he just wanted some company for awhile... I now do have 2 nice early u joints coming from England for a really great price too….thanks eBay…… In the end it was a nice day out with my beautiful wife and the dog too, well I think the dog had a good time.


Then I got to welding, not just tacking but really welding stuff.


Do you ever have a project or task that somehow you just can’t seem to commit to, sort of work all around it, just keep putting it off because…well you’re not sure why, lost your nerve, perhaps you’re just unsure how it will go or something?

I think I was putting off really welding things, I had everything well tacked but…. I just need to be sure, I might want to change something you know. I think in the end I was scared to commit to it, as I have said before it has been a long while, like 16, 17 years since I have really done any work like this.
Back then I was all practiced up, wouldn’t think twice about it, what are you waiting for? Just build it . Perhaps that stemmed from youthful ignorance or just 10+ years of doing such things, perhaps the former lead to the latter or a combination of both.
Whatever it is I guess I am worried I am “out of practice” but I just got to a point where I had to make a real weld before I could tack in another piece of the structure. So I made some practice passes to get the settings where I liked them and then…made a couple of permanent welds!

It’s not like I haven’t been welding lately, I have been acquainting myself with the new MIG welder for a while now, I built some shop tools, made a new frame for my trailer, built the jig table, landing gear for the chicken coop, etc., BUT THIS IS A REAL CAR! MY CAR! Or something like that, not sure what it was but I am sure I was avoiding it, but then once I started……..

I just could not stop….. a weld here, another weld over there, around the other side, some up top. Just working my way around trying to keep the distortion under control, just like old times, Oh boy!

So the rear suspension tower area is all welded up at last, it is very solid, I am happy with it. They are all not the perfect fish scale beads we see in glossy magazines but I know they are structurally sound with good penetration and complete coverage. Fancy little stuff you will see in the end I will do with the TIG but for the main structure it’s too slow and expensive to operate ( Argon vs CO2 ) and I will be sand blasting the finished chassis and coating it in POR15 so it will all look the same then.

Speaking of POR15, I did “finish” the rear upper suspension arms! They are welded, blasted and painted, my first “finished” parts and I am very happy with them….

I will now turn my attention to the front of the chassis….oh boy, can’t wait!

Lower mounts



A point in space.....



CAD !!










Check those clearances....



Started going crazy with the welder...



Full droop.



Welded...


Painted !!

[1795]

Originally Posted by old willy

Well it looks like the part in question is called an otter switch, that was the name of the company that made them" Otter " and they are still in business today making switches.
The one in the 289 was also found in Jag XK series and E types as well as others I am sure. Today it looks like you can get a 3 hole plate that is threaded to take a more conventional NPT thread thermo switch. I have the cast pipe coming on my recent order from CSX Parts so when I have it in hand I will figure out what I am doing with it.

As for the exhaust mainfolds............

Willy,

You are moving along nicely. Gas-N is making 289 headers that fit the leaf spring cars. They used my car to mock up ones. They make them to fit aftermarket heads and the stock heads. You may want to consider them. When you get to that point, when installing the engine the driver's side exhaust manifold needs to be placed in the engine compartment prior to installing the engine. There should be enough room to put the passenger side in after. Does your design have the forward struts that come from the passenger compartment to the tower for the transverse leaf springs welded in place or removable? If the are welded in place, then you would have to place both headers in first.

Good luck and stay warm. I was out splitting wood with a maul yesterday.

Jim

[old willy]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for that info, I will check them out. I did check out your photo gallery and are these the same headers under construction that you have pictures of? They look good, a tight fit to be sure but I think anything is going to be tight, no need to duct the heater into the foot boxes is there....

I also just read a new post about rear axle part numbers, I can't help out with if the information is correct or not but it is now a half shaft option I should consider, it will still need some machining to adapt the ends but no CV boots to contend with, no custom spline axles to source and much more period correct looking.....hmmm this place just fills your head with all kinds of ideas

[1795]

Willy,

They are a tight fit on mine, but mine are race headers for a Dart block with huge flow numbers. The ones I have are 1 3/4" pipes. If you are using stock heads they are mocking up 1 5/8" headers for those the weekend of December 3-5, so they will not be that tight. By the time that you are ready they should have them for sale. They do real nice work.

Keep the pictures coming.

Jim

[RussBD]

wow
Your build looks awesome. Really enjoy reading your posts, Keep up the great work. I am in Mississauga Ontario and currently finishing up my second build, both being the 427 Cobras. Body is off the frame now A lot easier to complete wiring and engine is going out this winter for machining. I hope to paint early next spring. But with two kids, house and fulltime job plans can always change. But keep posting everything looks great. Do you have a paint colour (and yes I am Canadian, this is how we spell colour not color).

Take care, be safe.

[old willy]

Hey all,

And hello to you RussBD, Sorry I haven't checked in for a while. I was just tied up with other stuff and trying to work on project roadster as much as I can.

I am working on an update that I will post shortly but just wanted to check in and say "Hi" before everybody stars thinking I am a jerk or something.

As for a colour choice, the jury is still out, for a long time I was going to go with dark green but since I started the project and have been looking at a lot of pictures of others I have also considered very dark blue and that rouge iris colour is very nice too, but definitely something dark to set off the limited amount of chrome trim the car has.

I have also seen nice examples in a dark silver but I only like it with a red interior and that's a whole other decision, as a red interior really limits any future colour choices, I have been down that road before. That's as far as my thoughts on that go right now.

I have a lot of work to do before I need to decide that one, so stay tuned!