Scratch builders

[Alex Evonosky]

John,
If you kool at the picture, the forward tension will be pulling on the rear mount which is welded to the total end of the 1 1/2" tubing with a top gusset beveled and welded to both sides, inside and out.
With the 5/8" gr 8 bolt tight stress will be pulling on both sides.
Maybe I am missing something here but I see no way enough stress could be applied to pull the brackets away from the horizontal tubing.

Micmate,
I did not evade the question of the spindles, I posted a list with all the part numbers a while back. All stuff so far is from Pole Position.
Also, as for the rear, not a problem as I am looking to order a IRS
quickchange which can be made to the correct width. Just need to take the time to decide on back spacing order the wheels.
I will have at least 10" on the rear. I have been watching the thread about the Vintage wheels and incorrect pins and such.
Did you ever hear if there was a conclusion the that issue. I know you sid you liked yours and the quality was supurb. I will order them and tell them you sent me.

[strictlypersonl]

My concern is not with the weld, nor the inner mounting system.

On braking, the upper ball joint is pulled forward quite strongly. The a arm is badly triangulated and the front link is jointed at both ends, offering negligible help in stabilizing the ball joint mount. As the upper ball joint moves forward, the front link is torquing the ball joint plate clockwise, with the highest reaction forces taken at the connection of the rear link and the plate. It's a lot of bending moment on a rod that's liable to be weakened by welding.

The system can be "fixed" by having both front and rear links having a centerline intersection as close to the center of the ball joint as possible. Instead of bending forces, you'll have only tension and compression.

[Alex Evonosky]

Mr. Strictly P.
Funny, I was calling you all kinds of names trying to figure out what you were trying to say. Sometimes I am toooo boneheaded to pick up on the simple things. Most racers are, (too many crashes) LOL.
I do understand now what you are trying to say.
Good catch though does make more sense...no big deal to move the arms in toward the ball joint got to line everything up and weld anyway. Thank goodness for tack welds!.
It really makes me feel good to receive feedback of useful information on this thread.
Just wish this thread would continue but keeps dying out.
This is the last time I am going to revive it. There is a lot of knowledge out there and for the builder, this could be a real good place to tap in for parts and ideas.

[Three Peaks]

Alex, have you been able to figure out what your wheel setback will be with your suspension set up? What is your flange to flange measurement with these control arms?
I noticed that Pole Position has different length adjustable arms now and I can't remember what length adjuster tubes you used?

Are you going to use the 11" GM rotors with the Wilwood superlite calipers and Granada bracket? If not, what do you have in mind for your brake set up? I know you're setting your car up for racing, so I'm assuming you are going to go with larger brakes if possible- possibly the 13" rotors?
I was also hoping this thread would attract more home builders so there would be more information out there for newbies like me, but I guess we'll just have to try to keep it alive as long as we can.

Thanks for all the information and great pictures- Bob

[Alex Evonosky]

Bob,
Probably will go wiyh the Wilwood Cal's.
I got these Granada 11" for now
Right now I am back to searching for an IRS quick change.
Was talking with CWI out in your neck of the woods but prices have gone way up since I was pricing a year or so back.
Then I was going with their Ford 9" IRS but called yesterday and they quit producing those.
I was working on wheel offset and stuff but now need to locate a rear. As you know, Takes a lot of time tracking parts.
anyway, back to google IRS quickchange rearends....

[mickmate]

Hi Alex, I have had a nap from the thread and was repeating someone elses question, I knew you had MII bits a couple of weeks ago when we talked about it. My upper mounts gusset between the mounts and the shock mount like this. Your not going anywhere Alex now you've stirred this up............
Hey Grumpy, bout time you showed up here. Did you like my pedals? I even forged a stamp if anyone ever looks! I owe you some reciprocal info mate.
Cheers Nick

[Alex Evonosky]

Bob,
Sorry, I Forgot, the upper rod lengths can and will vary depending on how you set up your front end.

[mickmate]

Try again.

[mickmate]

Bugger I can't get a picture to work. I think there's too much activity here, that's good! I'll put it in my gallery if this doesn't work. Hmmmff.

[Three Peaks]

I wish I knew something about setting one of these up. Suspension design isn't exactly my cup of tea and I was led to believe that parts were fairly easy to come by for the Cobra restorers chassis and suspension without going to the Cobra Restorers' outrageous expense.
So, I guess I'm learning on the fly here. Hope I don't upset anyone if I seem like I'm just trying to steal your design but I guess that is just about what I'm doing.

Alex, have you considered the 8.8 T-bird IRS set up? I found a way to mount the pumpkin, now I have to find a way to get the a-arms and trailing arms done. I'm hoping Grumpy will come up with something as he told me he has done these before. Once I get the motor and transmission mounts sorted out and welded in place I'll be looking to mount up the front suspension, then get to work on the rear set up. I find that if I work on too many things at one time I get a bit overwhelmed. Staying with one or two projects on the car at a time until it is solved seems to keep me on track a bit better (and out of the poorhouse)

Looking forward to hearing what you guys come up with- mainly to see how it can be adapted to my set up. Besides the fact your workmanship is first class. Once I get ahead of the curve a bit I hope I can contribute to this thread a bit more.

Thanks, Bob

[Three Peaks]

Nick,

You skipped over my question regarding designing your front suspension with the Mustang II IMCA spindles? Is it out of the question or do you just prefer the original style uprights? Curiosity and all that, you know- Bob

[mickmate]

Hey Bob, I have the MII spindles and the screw in ball joint sleeves for the a-arms. I have been looking at a couple of alternatives on relocating pivot points. I'm still cipherin as to where I want them ya see.

[grumpy]

mickmate,
As I noted in pvtMail, they were beeaaautifool as we say down here in TEXAS!
Now the trick, how many did you say you were fabricating?
grumpy

[mickmate]

How many do you need? I scaled the drawing on the photocopier to actual size and have a great template to plasma cut and bend to. If we need a hundred I'll get them laser cut but I only needed 2 for now. I'll try and post that pic of the suspension gusseting on the front upper. Hopefully it's fixed.

[chuckcobra]

Hi guys,
I've been away from the forum for quite a while and just noticed this thread about chassis layouts and CAD drawings. I'm in the process of documenting all of the pieces for the original 289 rack and pinion chassis in CAD. I'm still adjusting a few of the drawings, but so far I've got approximately 100 dimensioned CAD drawings completed.

I've only had one cup of coffee this morning so all bets are off about how awake that I am, but I thought that earlier in the thread there was some questions about A-arm layouts. I don't have details of the front done yet, but I'll try to attach a copy of the rear A-arm to this post if this would be of any help.

This thread is getting very long so it would seem the idea of a forum for "scratch builders" has some apeal. Has anyone contacted Brent to see about setting this up? (I just saw Brent at an event in Reno this weekend, so he is probably still in transit back home. )

Regards,
Chuck

[mickmate]

Chuck what an awesome drawing! Mark (MLOY) will be pretty excited about that, he's building a 289. You guys will sure be able to trade some numbers I'm sure. I have started to collect some dimensions off my front end and started drawing it up in CAD. I might want a little help from guys like you and Mark to draw up a bounce and rebound situation with the front end to check for bump steer if you guys are interested.
I think you are right with the responses this is starting to generate, we should be up around 4000 views any minute! Then of course it goes into scratch builders 289/427, leaf/coil, rack/box, original/aftermarket frames, original/aftermarket suspension spindles etc. Alex, look how much trouble you're causing now buddy. Do you want to e-mail Brent or would you like me to do it? It looks like I can upload pics again so I'll try and load one for Alex showing the fore and aft bracing on the front upper mounts.
Cheers Nick

[mloy]

Front A-Arm for everyones viewing pleasure.

Sorry guys, the attachment did not work but look in my Gallary.

[Alex Evonosky]

Chuck,
Really great drawing. Wish you had this for a 427 about 6 Mos. ago.
I am sure someone out there is building a 289 and will really appreciate your help and knowledge.
I just hope we keep contributing to this thread with useful information such as this.
Some of you guy's are real knowledgable out there and I enjoy learning from all of you.
No matter what you are building, we always get a little something from everyone if that is your typical project or not.

Maloy, I guess the picture didn't make it, at least way down here to Ga. LOL.
I have a real problem posting pictures.

[427sharpe]

A lot of good discussion here! With all the chat about M2 spindles, I am surprised that nobody has used a reverse taper in the steering arm, to allow use of the oe rack from Flaming River. As most would know, the M2 tie rod end enters the spindle from below, but the OE rack set up enters from above. If you mill out the steering arm of the M2 spindle and make a reverse steel taper, you can mount the oe rack and tie rod end from above and save a lot of reverse engineering. It has worked pretty well for me. On the control arms, the screw in ball joint sleeves are readily available from just about any racer supply, and they use the Mopar screw in ball joint, K772, which has the same taper as the stock M2 unit.
I have read with interest Three Peaks discussion about the TBird rear, and I would ask him to check out an Explorer unit instead, as the mounting is beefier, as are the axles. Use Tbird uprights and mount the hubs from a 99 Mustang Cobra in them. The Cobra has 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern already drilled and the bearings are the same so it is an easy swap.
Let's keep this thread alive (and hopefully un-hijacked ) as it is one that CC has been needing for a LONG time!

[Three Peaks]

Robert,
I never checked on the Explorer unit since I already have the T-bird unit in hand. At one time I was all set to build an FFR, but this opportunity came up and I jumped at it.
The Cobra hubs were a good idea, but for a lot less money I had my hubs drilled and found a great price on new bearings at Rockauto.com.
So, what A-arms did you use with the M2 spindles up front? Where would a guy get the tapered mill to make the IMCA style tapered arms? I've looked at them and the only difference I can see is the tapered arm. What other differences are there that I'm not aware of? If I knew anything about these things, I'd probably be dangerous!

Nice to have a few new contributors to the thread for a change. I hope it continues at least long enough for me to learn a thing or two from this thread.
(not that these guys haven't been more than helpful- I've just been leaning on a couple guys here for all the answers and I guess I need to pester someone else for awhile!)

Thanks, Bob