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05-25-2005, 08:58 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Holderness, NH, US of A,
NH
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4772 old iron FE
Posts: 5,499
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Not Ranked
Cool
Hi Robert, Heidts does have a good clear explanation and diagrams. They will send catalogs on request with all that stuff in it. I like your idea with the steering on the MII that gets 2 out of 3 points pretty close how did it work for you all done and did you use the stock inner locations?
Morris I was under the impression from the pics on the KMP site with the graduated plate on the hub etc that they had this bump monster all figured out. I'll have to read your thread and see what you've ciphered out.
Kris you are quite the resource on this stuff, did you finish up with Cobra Restorers or original uprights? The welding looks great on that. I see you did the removable chunk of the trans crossmember.
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05-26-2005, 05:57 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Las Vegas,
NV
Cobra Make, Engine: 427 SC
Posts: 1,076
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Not Ranked
mickmate,
I worked for Shelby, so unfortunately that wasn't mine! The chunk removed from the crossmember was to mount a TKO trans.
__________________
kris kincaid
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05-26-2005, 07:44 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Atlanta,
ga
Cobra Make, Engine: Building from scratch
Posts: 141
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Not Ranked
Kris, Morris
Kris,
Actually, you did a beauitful job on that frame.
Morris,
Interesting information you posted.
I was planing to build my front suspension the same as the original but did some research and changed my mind.
I went with 6 degrees anti dive, upper control arms mounted 10 degrees lower than the upper ball joint.
During your reasearch, did you also find out that the anti dive angle of 8 degrees was too much for todays tires. I had this discussion with a CC member in Texas a long time ago and I understood him to say the anti dive angle needed to be around 5 to 6 degrees for the tires of today.
Also, bump steer on the rear, Interesting subject as I was thinking that would be considered with the built in wheel camber and pinion angle that has to be calculated in advance. Doesn't all this tie in to the anti squat issue. Am I on the correct path or do I not know squat? LOL
Your thoughts as I am now doing the prep for my IRS quick change.
__________________
Cobracer#15
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05-26-2005, 09:37 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gurnee,
IL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #259
Posts: 1,396
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Not Ranked
Alex
On the rear suspension...... the key is where the trailing link is mounted to the Lower control arm...... below and above creates lots of bump steer...... mounted in the center of the tube gives you real good bump steer ....like is shown on KMP 259.....
The Camber and Toe In is the only other parts we concern our selves with....... Camber setting based on the camber gain of the suspension..... and Toe In is set at 1/16" to start....then we change as needed.... Most have to set this at 3/8" or more to compensate for the amount of bump steer they have
The Anti-Squat will fall in where the the upper control arm wants it to...based on the pickup points.........and is not all bad......
Even the NASCAR guy's have found out that Anti-Dive and Anti-Squat is not all bad...... was looking at one yesterday....
Morris
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Morris
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05-26-2005, 10:02 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gurnee,
IL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #259
Posts: 1,396
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Not Ranked
Kris
Nice frame..... did I notice a door bar.....in the photo's....
Morris
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Morris
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05-26-2005, 10:56 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bernville,
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: 289 Leaf Spring - On Hold
Posts: 126
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally posted by Specialk
Another thing that may be of use, I also have some photos of a 427 Shelby chassis I built awhile back.
Chassis Photos Are HERE
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That is some beautiful workmanship! Wish I could weld that pretty....
Could you answer me a question: does the main cowl hoop share the same basic dimensions on the 289 and 427? I realize one gets attached to 3" tubing and the other 4" tubing and that the spacing is different. The reason I ask is because I have no drawings for the 289 birdcage and thought if I bought the CR drawings, I could fudge it from there. (Unless you can hook me up.)  |
05-26-2005, 11:04 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Duvall,
Wa
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP286, Shelby 482, Webers, 593HP
Posts: 4,162
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Not Ranked
Hey, you now have a Scratch Builders Forum. |
05-26-2005, 11:11 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bernville,
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: 289 Leaf Spring - On Hold
Posts: 126
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally posted by Brent Mills
Hey, you now have a Scratch Builders Forum.
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Can I be moderator? |
05-26-2005, 06:37 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Las Vegas,
NV
Cobra Make, Engine: 427 SC
Posts: 1,076
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Not Ranked
Thanks for the compliments guys. Thats Navy welding there! 
Morris, that is a tube that goes in all the Las vegas built 4000 cars, including the aluminum ones. It is called a "cowl hoop connector". It hides in the rocker, and is not seen on a completed car.
Mloy, the cowl hoop on the 289 and 427 is dimensionally the same other than the areas you mentioned. I believe the centerline of the top tube to bottom tube is 24", but that is going off of memory. The 289 cowl hoop is 1/2" above the tubes, thats because the 289 floor rides 1/2" above the rails.
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kris kincaid
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05-26-2005, 09:09 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Holderness, NH, US of A,
NH
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4772 old iron FE
Posts: 5,499
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Not Ranked
Hey Kris
I see the tubes through the side of the cowl hoop. Is that the door mounting method on 4000's? That frame looks like it's for an aluminum body going by the permanently attached cowl hoop and birdcages. Why does the CSX # on the frame not match your title for the pic? Questions questions, you'll get sick of me in a hurry!
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05-26-2005, 09:19 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Las Vegas,
NV
Cobra Make, Engine: 427 SC
Posts: 1,076
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Not Ranked
mickmate,
Those tubes just connect the front and rear cowl hoops together, nothing for door mounting. The frame is for a fiberglass body. I messed up on the photo captions.
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kris kincaid
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05-27-2005, 01:28 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Atlanta,
ga
Cobra Make, Engine: Building from scratch
Posts: 141
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Not Ranked
Calling Morris (one Rear end Question)
Morris,
One more question if you don't mind. For road racing!!
Your personal thoughts between the IRS or live axle with Watts Link?
Thank you,
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Cobracer#15
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07-02-2005, 09:05 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Atlanta,
ga
Cobra Make, Engine: Building from scratch
Posts: 141
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Not Ranked
Scratch Builders Forum Gone Sideways
Looks to me as if this forum has gone south. When Brent gave us our own forum I really thought it would spark interest for others to get into building from scratch. So far, this is now a take off of the General Discussion or Shop Talk Forum.
just my .02 cents....
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Cobracer#15
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07-02-2005, 09:33 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Holderness, NH, US of A,
NH
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4772 old iron FE
Posts: 5,499
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Not Ranked
Hey Alex, I don't think there's anything to worry about with this many replies and about 5.5K views! There seems to be alot of people that are interested observers. That is good alot can benefit from a couple of mouthpieces like us chucking some opinions and a few facts around.........
Cheers Nick
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07-03-2005, 05:15 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tarpon Springs,
fl
Cobra Make, Engine: scratch building
Posts: 182
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Not Ranked
Scratch Builders Forum Gone Sideways
Hey Alex,
I have to agree with your view about forum and can only hope that it will head back to the right direction.We need to get some input and specs from the guys that are starting with raw steel, and right or wrong building,building with homegrown ideas. Lets talk welding ,machining etc...I did post some photos.
Al
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07-03-2005, 06:02 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 1999
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,888
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Not Ranked
You guys are doing a great job on these homebuilt Cobras. I have only one suggestion if you have not already done it. That is to make the transmission crossmember removable. While my car is not a homebuilt I have owned it for eighteen years and have had the trans out many times for many different reasons. My car had a solid crossmember and I had to remove the engine to get the trans out. Of course you could always remove the seats and tunnell and bring it out from the inside but that was very time consuming. A few years back I fabricated a new crossmember that could be removed and it make trans removel that much easier.
If you guys already have a removable mount then, NEVER MIND
Keep up the nice work,
Cranky
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SAAC member and supporter
Club Cranky charter member
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07-03-2005, 07:23 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gurnee,
IL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #259
Posts: 1,396
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Not Ranked
Alex
In regards to Road Racing a IRS rear suspension or a Straight axil rear suspension.......
I prefer the IRS over the Straight..... we've been able to make both work but the IRS has be faster once worked out....
Plus the IRS is easier to under stand when it comes to RC and IC points.....
With the new tires wanting more Neg camber....the IRS is the only way to go....
So If given a choice ....I'd go the IRS way and know its much faster....
Morris
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Morris
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07-03-2005, 07:26 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gurnee,
IL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #259
Posts: 1,396
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Not Ranked
In regards to cutting out cross members in the frames of these Cobra's......
I'd be very careful about removing any cross braces....
Infact we are adding more because the Torsional Ridigity of the ladder frame is not very strong and needs a lot of help....
Morris
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Morris
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07-03-2005, 09:56 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Cobra Make, Engine: A CSX Cobra,1966 GT350 and an '06 Ford Heritage GT
Posts: 1,829
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Not Ranked
Sorry it took so long to catch up...
Mick, all the stuff I had mentioned earlier has worked quite well for my chassis' to date. I did use the original chassi pick up points, just fabbed control arms as req to fit the parts. I never thought of Morris' idea on the rack being too long as designed because I made the car fit the parts. A bit or 'reverse engineering' I suppose! 
I would like to compliment Brent on setting up a forum for us, now we just have to get accustomed to having more than one thread!
I would also advise EVERYBODY, builder or not, to check out Morris' site (listed earlier). I have been following his build on the Gashole site, and this car is going to be spectacular! A TON of great ideas in there...
I guess we need to ping Coupe Chuck and get him in here with some updates on his scratch built Daytona....the ultimate homebuilder in my eyes!
http://members.aol.com/coupechuck/
He is the one that got me started on this trek (..BTW, my WIFE wants to meet you, too! She's Mexican, so watch out for blades!  ). I have been experimenting with aluminum, small parts first, and am just about ready to tackle a full body...I just happen to have a fibreglass buck! 
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"I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious." Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by 427sharpe; 07-03-2005 at 10:00 AM..
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07-03-2005, 08:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Atlanta,
ga
Cobra Make, Engine: Building from scratch
Posts: 141
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Not Ranked
Thank you Morris
Morris,
The reason for my IRS/ WATTS link question!!
My origional plan was to go with the IRS. However, I did not want to go with Jag, Corvette, or T bird, What I wanted was the Ford 9" IRS for the availability of ratios. And you know how important the correct ratio is at the track.
Of course this was several years ago when I got pricing from Dutchman was 3,995 now 5,625
CWI was ? Now quit producing the 9" IRS
But I have found a Texas company RCC which has one for around 4,800.
Anyway what I was trying to sort out was after studying up on the WATTS Link (mounted under the diff) . from the $ amounts if this would be compatable. Seems like I have more time and mfg. skills than money.LOL
With all that stuff said, I am going to respect your opinion and stay with the Ford 9" IRS.
Again, thank you for your time and replies.
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Cobracer#15
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