Scratch builders

[Alex Evonosky]

The reason I bring this up is all my pictures show a polished looking raw steel. (Belt sanded)
Some friends were in the shop looking things over and that was the first question? Why , there is no rust, why not?
My trick is to wipe it clean, spray a heavy coat of Weld Aid (anti-splatter) all over. Once a month, I wipe it off and re apply.
If I don't hurry up and get this rear end thing going I may buy a case of this stuff. LOL
I noticed Al's pictures, he to has belt sanded all his steel.
Anyway, just wondering what you guys use to prevent rust.

[mickmate]

And it's all ready to spark a few more bits on!
Hey Al you REALLY wanted that Jag rear in there didn't you! That looks like an innovative approach, you're doing some nice work.
It's alive it's alive.......the thread I mean??

[Alex Evonosky]

Mick,
I didn't know if you noticed that Al had a good idea. He actually let the 4" rails extend further so the top hoop will actually drop back down to the rear. Right now it looks like a good idea. I have not got that far since I am still looking for the 9" IRS (without having to take out a loan).

Nice job Al.

[alfy65]

Hey,Thanks guys..i had a case of tunnel vision with that rear end,it's tight but will drop out with bottom mount removed.The camber and toe should be fully adjustable, but will have to assemble shortened axles and A arms to check all out.Mloy's 289 arm is looking good.I might consider building that way instead of CWI style.I set it for stock shock heights (4) and will try to run recommended 2 degree drop on axles at ride height. Alex,I appreciate your insight on frame and thanks again. Yep, forum lookin good
Al

[427sharpe]

Looking at alfy's frame made me think again about why the OE frames were not built the same way, with the main tubes extending all the way to the rear. It would seem to be a lot more solid than the way Thames Ditton built the originals. When I look at an original frame, it looks as if it was a shop error! Just see some poor guy being told to cut the main tubes to 'x' length, and getting it wrong so they have to cobble up a fix to make due. I know this is a relatively moot point as I have not heard of any rear subframes falling off, but alfy's certainly LOOKS like a better idea! I take it for granted that the axles will clear all frame parts in full droop.

[alfy65]

427sharpe ,
It appears to have enough clearance to just miss 4"frame tube in droop .If needed I could "C" that section of frame and weld in reverse section of tube to clear,like we used to lower rails over rear ends.At this time the center line of axle matches the original frame to axle dimension off original plans.i will let ya know as build continues.
Al

[mickmate]

I was looking at a lot of this stuff off the original hand drawn CR prints vs the new CAD ones. They don't jive with each other from page to page never mind rev to rev. The thing that made me laugh was your comment on the cut lengths as a lot of them seem to be made to economic material cut sizes. I believe the frame rails were 8 footers and a lot of other stuff is 6", 2', 3' etc. I agree and think Al is onto something there. Hey Al what are you shortening your track, flange dimensions to? Check out the metric mad numbers on the thread about it.

[alfy65]

mickmate,
Track, flange to flange, will be 54.625" the final total will depend on off set ..etc.Frame rails 4" tube are 110" long with crossmembers at 20" center.Of course the rails would be too long for anything but IRS setup..
Al

[alfy65]

Morris.
I looked at "the other forum" and have to tell ya that the detail and info on your build in Gurnee Ill is great.I had a sandblasting and painting company in Waukegan, Zion Ill for about 15 years , moved in "87.We may have crossed paths.I knew a lot of guys in North Shore Rods,Lakeshore Harley .Sandblasted a lot of vettes, frames etc.Post a link to your site or thread, a lot of guys would appreciate it
Al

[Morris]

Al

Glad to here you're from the Cold weather climate...and were smart enough to move south..........and yes we have had a relatiionship with the folks at Lakeshore for many Harley's that we built.....

The build of KMP 259 has become a passion to make a Cobra Replica better then the original ever thought it could be.....

We are incorporating many new idea's and ways to structurally make it a stronger and safer chassis..... plus when all of this comes together the suspension will work many times better....

Time will tell and hopefully we'll have KMP 259 on the street/track by the end of this year.....

Morris

[427sharpe]

Morris, PLEASE advise when your KMP hits the track...would love to see it!

[mickmate]

It looks like the wheels and tires just got fatter to try and put some of the big block to the road. Those were the days when wheels were offset. They ran out of room for a rear lower control arm (and a radius rod mount) that allowed any suspension movement and finished up with what they did for inner arm mounts. Why in the heck would anyone want to replicate such technology

[Morris]

Robert

We were hoping to make Run n Gun this year ....but it doesn't seem like we'll make it.....

As we get things done we'll have to get it together just to get it on the ground......

Then more modifications...... I just love working on these Cobra's.....

That's when you try to get them to go around a corner...... fast..... time will tell...

And for sure we'll let you know....

Morris

[Alex Evonosky]

Mark,
First sorry for the late delay in response. My shop computer hard drive quit. Comp. shop says maybe lightning strike. (I am better at cars than computers).
Anyway, thank you for the compliment. I do not have actual drawings but my book is about 3" thick with notes.
I would be happy to help with questions you may have. If you would like, send me a PM with your ph. number and I will help explain what you are looking at.
All of my parts and some measurements are up in this thread. Like Bob mentioned, I did use Pole Pos. (now Specialty) parts, Flaming River Rack, however, I did modify the Pole Pos lower controls.
I do however believe in keeping this thread alive and this is where everyone has an opportunity to read and learn from others. The reason I said I would call you is not to bypass this thread but sometimes I can explain an issue easier speaking than by writing.

Anyway, let me know.
Thank you.

[Alex Evonosky]

Al,
Almost missed your PS question attached to the other post.
So many different threads, just don't have time. Also shop Compooter still out. Have to get another one to be able to keep up here..

To answer your question concerning the measurement from my bottom ball joint center to the pivot center is 13".
My top measures 9 1/2".
VERY IMPORTANT, Just remember when you layout your front you need to make sure all your inner pivot points line up. That is what determines your top position.
When welding your bottom brackets, don't forget to calculate your ride height.
Temp tack weld your R &P. Don't forget to set your rack back about 1/2'' behind your tie rod ends.
Get the R & P dead nuts centered. (steering side to side)
Remove the rubber dust boots.
I used a laser with rotatable (red line) to line up the bottom control arm pivot piont, rack pivot point, this determined my upper connection point distance.
I also designed the upper control inner connection points to be about 10 degrees lower than the ball joint. (this always works well with independents.
Also, only have about 6 degrees of anti dive built in. Not 8.
The above worked out very well (still on the jig) with bump. very very little. Once completed that little bit can be adjusted out with a small shims at the rod ends.

Thank you,

[cruzer5531]

Al,
I am Scratch building a 427 cobra. I have the body and now starting on the frame.
I sure could use some frame demensions.
Can you help?
Thanks, Vic

[Alex Evonosky]

Vic,
First thing you should do is call Cobra Restorers 770-427-0020 and order the drawings. I believe they have them on CD, but not sure. Although I have heard there are a few glitches with some of the numbers, there is a thread here which corrects that. Since I changed my design for what I wanted, I never ran into any issues. I only used the drawings for the frame deminsions.
There are absolutely toooo many deminsions to list and explain on an email.
If you like, I can send pics to you for a jig I made from pipe with the frame rails bolted down. A MUST in my opinion
The following are measurements but kinda hard for me to explain or you to decipher if we both aren't looking at the same picture.
Anyway,
Frame rails are made from 4" tubing. DOM
Total length of tubes are 8'- 1/4"
20" center to center for the width.
Each end has a 1/4" cap welded on which makes the final length 8'- 3/4" in length.
The first, third and fourth cross members are 4" also. Coped
The 2nd cross member is 3" Tubing coped to set at the bottom of the 4".
From the front (with the cap welded on) to the 1st cross member is 7- 1/8" CL
To the 2nd ( 3") is 3'- 7/8" CL
To the 3rd is 5'-3 3/16" CL
And the 4th is measured from the rear which is 1'-1 3/8" CL.
Again, before you start you should get the above mentioned drawings and study them for a day or so before beginning. With the price of steel these days, use the measure twice, cut once method.
Once you get your above drawings, all the above numbers will make sense.
Don't forget to build your jig first: make it is perfectly level both ways. Then be sure your frame is also perfect once you have it bolted down to the jig. You will find this very important once you start trying to measure the difference between 1 or 2 degrees when setting up your front and rear suspension.

Hope this helps

[cruzer5531]

Alex,
Thanks for the quick reply. Sounds like I have it right. The main rails and cross members are finished. I plan on going with a 9" rear with 4 link and coil overs. and that's where I'm stuck. I'm unsure as to the offset and kick up of the rails after the last rear cross member. Do you think I could use 2x3 tube to mount the 4 link and coil overs? I'M looking for kick up angles and height of the rear rails from the main rails. (not sure if I explained that right).
I checked out your photos and your frame looks great. A lot of work there.
Thanks, Vic

[Alex Evonosky]

Vic,
Do you have your front suspension complete yet?
For some reason most guys start with the rear and then move to the front. I choose to start in the front with all the real complicated geomentry and work all that out and then move on to the rear. In my opinion, the front is way more critical and much much more difficult to make it work correctly with setting up the rack & Pinion, ride height, track width, anti dive angle, caster camber, bump steer, shock length, shock angles, and more issues.
My opinion is the rear can be made to fit the front much easier than the front to the rear.
I am now looking for a quick change and I will be designing a WATTS Link for the setup.
I am not sure if there is room under there for the four link to work properly.
As for the steel, I was planning on using the 3" .120 for the main supports.
Anyway glad to hear you are progressing with your project.

[mickmate]

You've got me collecting front end bits now buddy. I wanted to be here when it clicked over 7K wooohooo. Keep them awake out here.
Cheers Nick