Pounding Aluminum

[kris-kincaid]

Original wireframe for a Ferrari GTO

Originally Posted by mickmate

...Most of the top notch guys that do this that I've talked to actually prefer a birdcage to work over than a buck.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by mickmate

There are some 3D models available to build the bucks. The best buck I've seen is a 4000glass body (pulled off Carrolls car) reinforced underneath to hold the shape.

Where please?

Mike

[mickmate]

Most of what you see ain't real purdy......
http://www.tutorials3d.com/eng/mod_sheet.asp?mod_id=24

[mickmate]

This guys got a better body shape methinks
http://artist-3d.com/free_3d_models/...hp&count=count

[RedEsprit]

I'm currently building a hood, doors, and decklid for my ERA out of .062 aluminum. I also re-skinned an aluminum AC years ago. Working and forming metal is a a very enjoyable hobby but you have to have patience (and a sense of humor) when you start.

If you want to learn how to actually hammerform, wheel, and gas weld aluminum for such a project, a good place to start is to attend one of the workshops put on by Ron & Dan Fournier

www.fournierenterprises.com

. Its about $1,000 to $1,400 and lasts for 3 or 4 days depending on whether or not you take the gas welding class. They allow only six students so you get a lot of time on the wheels and hammerforming and great personal one-on-one instruction. The Fourniers are really good people and very skilled. Ron also has a good series of tapes and DVDs on the subject. If I'm not mistaken, Mark Gerisch (who built Leno's car and also supplied the FIA nose panel for my AC) started out in a Fournier class.

You'll probably find forming the aluminum by hammerforming and wheeling to be one of the easier tasks. Gas welding, filing, and finishing 60 thou aluminum is a bit of an art and requires a lot of practice. Bending and forming the steel framework precisely so that doors, hood and decklid fit perfectly is not to be taken lightly. You'll need a lot of metal tools. A good English wheel is essential. You'll also need a Henrob welder and some other welder for the steel tubes (mig, tig, gas), a rotary former or bead roller, shrinker / stretcher / dollies, slappers, hammers, mallets, and shot bags. If your making the interior panels a good finger brake will help. Or...you could just buy a Kirkham and save $10,000 in tools. Oh yeah....You will also need beer.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by mickmate

This guys got a better body shape methinks
http://artist-3d.com/free_3d_models/...hp&count=count

How do these guys make their models? What are they based on?

Mike

[bomelia]

Hmmm... are you saying that I will have invest $60K by the time it is over?

Originally Posted by RedEsprit

I'm currently building a hood, doors, and decklid for my ERA out of .062 aluminum. I also re-skinned an aluminum AC years ago. Working and forming metal is a a very enjoyable hobby but you have to have patience (and a sense of humor) when you start.

If you want to learn how to actually hammerform, wheel, and gas weld aluminum for such a project, a good place to start is to attend one of the workshops put on by Ron & Dan Fournier

www.fournierenterprises.com

. Its about $1,000 to $1,400 and lasts for 3 or 4 days depending on whether or not you take the gas welding class. They allow only six students so you get a lot of time on the wheels and hammerforming and great personal one-on-one instruction. The Fourniers are really good people and very skilled. Ron also has a good series of tapes and DVDs on the subject. If I'm not mistaken, Mark Gerisch (who built Leno's car and also supplied the FIA nose panel for my AC) started out in a Fournier class.

You'll probably find forming the aluminum by hammerforming and wheeling to be one of the easier tasks. Gas welding, filing, and finishing 60 thou aluminum is a bit of an art and requires a lot of practice. Bending and forming the steel framework precisely so that doors, hood and decklid fit perfectly is not to be taken lightly. You'll need a lot of metal tools. A good English wheel is essential. You'll also need a Henrob welder and some other welder for the steel tubes (mig, tig, gas), a rotary former or bead roller, shrinker / stretcher / dollies, slappers, hammers, mallets, and shot bags. If your making the interior panels a good finger brake will help. Or...you could just buy a Kirkham and save $10,000 in tools. Oh yeah....You will also need beer.

[mickmate]

How do these guys make their models? What are they based on?

Drugs and a poor memory...............One of the best methods is to get a really accurate scale model and to run it through a CMM and scale the results to full size. A full size body is good, correct it where needed and reinforce the underside.

[berzerko]

here is an interesting site the kid is like 18 years old with no "formal" training
very impresive
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=253372

As far as I know you really need a buck or something to form to

Bobby

[RedEsprit]

Hmmm... are you saying that I will have invest $60K by the time it is over

That depends on your consumption of the final piece of equipment....beer.
In all seriousness, you will probably need $5,000 in tools and equipment at a minimun. A decent wheel is $1,500-$5,000. I have an Imperial 28F which is now about $3,000. I bought it some years ago for $2,500. Add $1,000 learning how to use it and weld. Then add $1,500-$2,000 in smaller tools such as shrinkers, stretchers, hammers, mallets, welders, rotary formers, sheet metal cutters, and too many small tools to imagine. I easily have $10,000 in metal forming tools and could easily spend double that much again. On the other hand, a Cobra only requires a few thousand dollars in steel, aluminum, and rivets to build. Get the fiberglass footboxes from ERA, Factory Five or someone similar and your in business as a "scratch builder".
Cobra Restorers has the complete blueprints of a 427 chassis for $200. Just bought them myself.

[RedEsprit]

If your serious about building the aluminum car, the place to start is to order the DVDs and VHS tapes from Fournier Enterprises. These are very professionally done. Still interested? Make a reservation to go to Detroit and attend a workshop. Still interested? Start pricing out the tools. You may decide that buying a Kirkham is an easier route. They make an awfully good product for the price. I'm just a glutton for punishment and have never done anything the easy way. Just ask any one of my ex-wives.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by RedEsprit

That depends on your consumption of the final piece of equipment....beer.
In all seriousness, you will probably need $5,000 in tools and equipment at a minimun. A decent wheel is $1,500-$5,000. I have an Imperial 28F which is now about $3,000. I bought it some years ago for $2,500. Add $1,000 learning how to use it and weld. Then add $1,500-$2,000 in smaller tools such as shrinkers, stretchers, hammers, mallets, welders, rotary formers, sheet metal cutters, and too many small tools to imagine. I easily have $10,000 in metal forming tools and could easily spend double that much again. On the other hand, a Cobra only requires a few thousand dollars in steel, aluminum, and rivets to build. Get the fiberglass footboxes from ERA, Factory Five or someone similar and your in business as a "scratch builder".
Cobra Restorers has the complete blueprints of a 427 chassis for $200. Just bought them myself.

Now THAT is what I was looking for! But what about the body?

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by RedEsprit

If your serious about building the aluminum car, the place to start is to order the DVDs and VHS tapes from Fournier Enterprises. These are very professionally done. Still interested? Make a reservation to go to Detroit and attend a workshop. Still interested? Start pricing out the tools. You may decide that buying a Kirkham is an easier route. They make an awfully good product for the price. I'm just a glutton for punishment and have never done anything the easy way. Just ask any one of my ex-wives.

No doubt. Kirkham is the best. But it is HARD to spread the cost out over time (and effort) when the next step after the enine is a $50,000 roller. I'm raising two boys, building a custom guitar business, working a career, paying for a home and saving for college & retirement. Whats a smuck like me with a cobra problem to do? I sure as HELL ain't gonna give bankers my tool money in interest!! Basturds them all.

Like anything, once you got the tools, you can "eat" for a lifetime.

I come in here (and elsewhere) every so often. All a guy like me wants is plans, advice, and encouragement. I would be willing to go the glass route also... but I need plans!

Mike

[bomelia]

I need to add this story. 2 years ago, a number of decided to go deep sea fishing in Destin FL, (families in tow). Went down to the docks and finally chose a desperate skipper. VERY nice boat. 52 footer. Twin Deisels. Double flybridges. Cabin was sweet and had excellent head and sleeping quarters. I got to jawing with the first mate. Maybe, he had 4 teeth in his face. Skinny as bones would allow. He finally told me he had built this boat (and two others like it.) After that, I started noticing things about the craft that led me to believe him. Yet, it was an excellent boat. Beautiful.

So, if a 4 toothed guy with skin wrapped bones can build a 52 foot twin diesel fishing boat, why can I not build a cobra body?

Plans and advice. Thats whats needed.

Mike

[mickmate]

Question is what do you want to build? If you want to build original style chassis you become very limited in options on suspension and it is a huge part of the cost. None of that info is on the Cobra Restorers prints but as far as the chassis goes they are quite good with some numerical errors. Suspension for originals is available from SA, KMP, AMP, RGB. Aluminum body we've discussed at length. Really the only game in town cost wise is KMP. That's because they use offshore manufacturing and stretch formed panels. Now it's not a hand beaten car it's hand assembled. The people that make the big dollar parts of the project are all selling cars and making money on their part of the project. It all comes back to the same old thing, time and money.

[hi-tech cobra]

I decided it was time to give the "pounding aluminum" thing a try. I bought the tools Mickmate suggested and here is the result after a long weekend of pounding. I think the body looks pretty good...should I mount it on the chassis now, or make a few more tweaks?
Thanks for your input in advance!!!

[Buzz]

Hmmm...you chose the narrow hip configuration. Clearly designed with only enough room for a small block...

[RedBarchetta]

Right hand drive configuration?

[Jac Mac]

Is Coupe Chuck still selling plans etc? they should be all you need.

[CobraV8]

Originally Posted by Jac Mac

Is Coupe Chuck still selling plans etc?

I recently wanted to take a look at his homepage, but it had been shut down. AOL sucks! I hope he had some kind of backup, it really was a shame if everything was lost now.

-Simon