CSX 4k handling/alignment

[bret a ewing]

I Need caster!!! Please, This thing hunts worse than my yellow lab!!
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The car is CSX 4802 with the updated H/D billet front and rear uprights.
Getting the car ready for SAAC36 open track. Made some height adjustments (lowering the car probably threw out the toe) so it is time for an alignment.

Last specs were -1.5 Deg Camber, 1/8" toe in, and attempted to get 5 deg of caster. They could not get more than a degree-but I don't know how hard they tried!
Has anyone achieved this 5 deg of caster? If so can you PLEASE explain it to me in a way I can explain to the mechanic.
Thanks a bunch.............and if you think the other specs need adjusting, let me know, I want to do this right the first time.

Thanks a bunch CSX Gurus.

[mickmate]

Hey Bret the billet uprights have a bolted on upper ball joint mount that is slotted. Unfortunately the hubs need to be dismantled to adjust them forward to achieve more caster. I have also taken a jam nut off a turnbuckle on an upper control arm and tightened it up all the way without it which gives more adjustment but you have to undo the chassis end to adjust it now. Any issues let me know.

[bret a ewing]

Thanks Mick, were you able to achieve 5 deg with just the upper ball joint mount? Where would you think a good starting point would be in "the slot"?
Bret.

[mickmate]

Hey Bret that's funny you're looking to go that high with the caster as that's where I like it, heavier steering with good self centering and feedback. I got 4.5 out of it without tearing the hub apart and moving the top bracket using that turnbuckle trick.

[bret a ewing]

4.5 will be fine. Do you have a different setup since you dont have to take apart the hub or is it not necessary? I may need a little more splanin'

Thanks for the help BTW.

[Bobcat]

Brent ... can`t help on a CSX , but maybe I`ll see you at VIR as I`ll be there also for some track time . Last time I ran there was back in the late 60`s .... and the track has really been upgraded .

Bob

[mickmate]

You may not be able to get enough with that trick as you have so little caster to start. If you take a jam nut off one side of the rear turnbuckle and screw the heim joint all the way in till it jams. Then put it back together with the other side of the turnbuckle adjusted all the way in that should increase your caster a lot. That is also changing camber so watch your not adjusting the front one out too far to keep the camber setting. That is count thread engagement. The rest of your settings look pretty good, how is the back coming out? That really needs to be right when you get back on the gas and transfer the weight and power through a BPL with foot wide tires.

[bret a ewing]

Hey Bob,

See ya in couple of weeks, this will be a pretty cool event.

[bret a ewing]

Pulled the wheel, the upper ball joint is fixed not slotted. So, the only option would be to adjust caster at the heim joint, only problem is front and rear adjustment nuts are bottomed (shortest possible a-arm length) against the heim joint. Do I cut off part of the rear arms to allow more caster adjustment?
BTW checked the printout for the last alignment and the caster was -0.3 on both left and right side, hence why I have to make a change.

[bret a ewing]

Mick,
I reread you post concerning removing a jam nut, I will try that since one end of the turnbuckle was loose anyway.

[mickmate]

I would check the front is out as far as it will go with enough thread for safe engagement and take a nut off the rear and screw that one in. You don't want the front in as far as it will go??

[bret a ewing]

Just got off the phone with Shelby's suspension guy, Tom Bernard. Seems the early a-arms (around CSX 4802) were longer than are currently in use, which is the exact reason I am having a problem with achieving proper camber. You can recognize the new from the old by the distance of a-arm tube after the weld, this is the threaded part the heim joint/turnbuckle adjustment screws into.
In other words, if the threaded part of the arm is flush with the weld then it is the newer design, if there is .75" to 1.5" after the weld it is the old design and you probably dont have spec caster. To correct you must cut your a-arms, I'll let you know how it turns out..............

[bret a ewing]

Mick,
Oh, I mentioned to Tom your idea of not using one of the nuts, he did not recommend this as, "it may put pressure on the threads".

[mickmate]

Hmm what do you think a jam nut does, I make the arms in original or adjustable configurations so if you need help making or modifying let me know.

[bret a ewing]

Hehe I know what you are saying, notice my "quotations" from Tom. Thanks for all your help, I had Tom measure the arms on a new CSX he had in the shop. They were as measured from the ball joint to the end of the arm front and back, the tape does not form a perfect parallel ray but it is a place to start.
Front distance: 5 1/2" Rear distance: 5".
Bret.

[Bluedog]

Bret,
We're almost related...I owned CSX4803! I couldn't get the alignment dialed in until I took the cobra to Tom's Motorsports. After he changed out the shocks and did the alignment, the car no longer "hunted".

[jmc]

Hey Brett,

I will also be working on my alignment before the trip to VIR. My car is earlier than yours and I am sure a very different front suspension. I also spoke with Tom the other day. It will be interesting to see what alignment specs I can get to. I remember you from the old cobra forum on the SAI website. Look forward to meeting you (and other CSX owners) at VIR.
John

[bret a ewing]

Hello John and all,
Looking forward to meeting and seeing all you great folks in a couple of weeks.

Well, here is the final chaper it the caster story...........

After pulling both front a-arms I realized they were on the wrong sides, left to right, no wonder caster was unachievable!
Swapped sides, huge difference, even the symmetry of the ball joint-to upright looks much better.
Anyway it's probably just an isolated mistake at the HST factory, but I'm a little dissapointed my dealer didn't question a -0.3 caster since the alignment charge was $450. At 140mph + this thing was a handfull, hopefully this will help.

[bret a ewing]

John,
Let me know if you have any questions, maybe I can help.

[mickmate]

That was so obvious I overlooked suggesting that first, at least you figured it out. That will make a HUGE difference to the way it drives.