Aluminum Body

[Cobrafan1]

I do love the fact that the Kirkhams are symmetrical as well. Was just trying to find out the OTHER styling differences between the two. Again they are very subtle....

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Cobrafan1

Seriously though, are there any other subtle differences I'm missing? The rear flares (fender lips) on the new AC bodies seem to be muted compared to the Kirkhams, kinda like the old narrow hip 427's. Then again, I've seen those bodies bare, and the flares look fine. Maybe too much paint filler??

Perhaps the subtle differences are intentionally kept secret...

I remember someone mentioning on an older thread, that the McCluskey continuation Daytona Coupes have an intentional difference in their construction so those in the know can tell that they are not original Daytona Coupes. And apparently there are very few people who know what the secret difference is.

However I would think that the Kirkham and Kirkham based Shelby cars are probably easily differentiated from the originals based on the thickness of the aluminum sheets used. Interestingly when I was at the Kirkham Open House last year, I heard that the Kirkhams had reduced the number of aluminum pieces that they use to make up the body. Thus by looking at the welding seems on the underside of the body you should be able to differentiate a Kirkham from an original body.

I wonder if anybody knows what car was used as the model for the North Devon Metalcraft based CSX1000 based cars.

I guess if you want the most accurate 289 style aluminum body (other than buying an unrestored original), then Brooklands is probably the most capable of doing that as they apparently are holding some of the AC tooling that came back from Malta. It would be nice if Alan was not involved though. Unfortunately AC trashed the original tooling for the 427 cars long ago according to reliable sources. So even the "AC" based CSX1000 cars were never built off of the original tooling regardless of what was advertised at the time.

I think your best bet is to just buy the Kirkham.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Cobrafan1

check out Gessford, project 10, csx1021. If you look at the bare body, the rear flares seem normal (427s/c or comp), but after its painted the appear more blended. Maybe its me?? I've also seem other pics of CSX1000 cars where the rear flares seem more subdued. Personally I like the wide rear fender lips (flares).

For those of us who get easily lost looking for what you are talking about... CSX1021 Shelby American

[Cobrafan1]

1ntCobra, this is exactly the one I'm talking about. The radiator opening looks slightly more rounded, particularly on the bottom. I feel they captured the look just a little better than the Kirkham. This is not at all to imply that the Kirkham is "off" or wrong. I just like it better. Likewise the rear fender flares seem a little more pronounced on the Kirkham. Then again, maybe when they painted csx1021, they used a little to much bondo in the transition from the lip to the fender???

[Jamo]

CobraFan1

Having seen a 1000 next to my own Kirkham...the flares are basically the same...the 1000 was in a file finish vs my brushed, so the light shone on them a bit differently. And I think it's the same tricks light plays that makes you think the linked 1000's flares look a little different after its painted. Jorge (aka George) ain't no photographer.

To me, the easiest difference to see between the 1000 and the KMP is the along the top rear fender from profile and the rear...a bit rounder for the 1000. There are other, extremely minor details.

Forgetting any discussion about which is better, etc., another line of thought process for you might be along the lines of which will make you happier as a Cobra owner. Personally, I want the same guys who built the thing to be within reach (alright...within reach of a longassed arm) if I need dings taken out, etc. Provo's not around the corner, but it's not a boat ride away either.

You've been around here long enough (2002) to know everyone else in the arruminum business has come and gone except two...McCluskey and the Kirkhams.

[computerworks]

The car shown in the paint booth (in prime) on George's site appears not to be the same car you have seen bare in other pictures.

[Jamo]

So you're basically saying that the 1000s are like Yugos...they look different based on the amount of ouzo in the hammer man's bloodstream?

CobraFan1...given your curiosity about the differences in Cobra bodies, maybe you'll indulge a bit of my own...

You've been here since 2002...are you buying one, or just sittin there enjoying the discussion?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

However I would think that the Kirkham and Kirkham based Shelby cars are probably easily differentiated from the originals based on the thickness of the aluminum sheets used.

According to the Kirkham's website/marketing materials, the original '60's Cobras were made from aluminum with a thickness of 0.050". The Kirkham bodies are/were made from aluminum with a thickness of 0.059".

Unfortunately, I have no idea about the CSX1000's, but I am curious.

[Cobrafan1]

Jamo, to indulge you as you say, its both. I'm seriously considering one. Yes I've been a member since 2002. I'm finally in a position both personally and professional where I can. Lets say its been a childhood dream. Is it ok to ask these questions?

[razerwire]

Pictures of AC Cobra, and Shelby Cobra, both full comp. cars finished as close to the same way as possible. From SAAC 35.
SAAC 35 - a set on Flickr

[1ntCobra]

Of course if you are considering a brand new CSX1000 series car, then this is picture is irrelevant.

This could just a trick of the light, but I think I see what you mean with CSX1001 (red) parked next to a polished aluminum CSX4000 series.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Cobrafan1

Jamo, to indulge you as you say, its both. I'm seriously considering one. Yes I've been a member since 2002. I'm finally in a position both personally and professional where I can. Lets say its been a childhood dream. Is it ok to ask these questions?

Good for you for getting in a position to buy what you want!

At this point I figure that Ron and Jamo just figure I'm just here for conversion.

I have had to reconsider all of my priorities with my divorce last year. The important thing is that I have my kids to take care of. I've got a financial mess to get myself out of, but at least now I have complete control over my finances again. Who knows, there may still be some sort of Cobra in my future.

Actually I'm going to drive a Backdraft this spring (but only for an hour) 1 Hour Cobra Replica Rental - Groupon Offer - Pennsauken, New Jersey - $99

[Cobrafan1]

It doesn't matter why your here. What matters is that you appreciate these cars!

The above pictures captures perfectly what I'm talking about. The front fender flares on the csx1000 cars seem a little more rounded, while the rear flares of the Kirkham bodied care seem a little more dramatic. Could be a lighting trick but I've noticed this in other photos....

[1985 CCX]

Really guys?
If you can afford a hand rolled car that has all the asymetry of the original I say do it. The KMS car is a great car, think a tad bit thicker than AC cars (?) however they are also perfect. These are hand made and no two are exactly the same.

Most of all if you can swing a 2000 or 3000 car buy it!

A wise man once told me in reference to the Cobra (Jack Launtz RIP)
"If you can afford the cost of admission you will always be satisfied" He owned 3047, 3020 and AM#2 GT40. He never seemed to regret his purchases...... At least to me.....

COB6111

CSX3002

KMS

CSX3006

CSX3176

CSX3047

CSX3011

CSX3020

CSX3245

CSX3047 again

CSX2396 (ok now I am just being an ass however awesome!)


To my eye all different........... Not that this is sensitivity issue just fact that hand made cars are not the same.....

[Cobrafan1]

I'm really not sure why those with Kirkhams or Kirkham bodied cars seem to be so sensitive. I actually think some of the details on the Kirkham bodies are nicer (rear flares). It wasn't my intention to start a firestorm. As far as the Kirkhams go, its my understanding that they are in fact more hand fitted than stamped. Check out there website....

[Cobrafan1]

Sorry, meant to say those who like or own Kirkham bodied cars.....

[1ntCobra]

There is something weird about 2396.



I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe the missing sun visor, the odd passenger side mirror, the missing rear bumper, the street car fill cap, the graffiti on the glove box, hmm, what is it?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Cobrafan1

... It wasn't my intention to start a firestorm. ...

I seem to have missed the firestorm part. This seems like a pretty civilized thread to me.

[Slither]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Really guys?
If you can afford a hand rolled car that has all the asymetry of the original I say do it. The KMS car is a great car, think a tad bit thicker than AC cars (?) however they are also perfect. These are hand made and no two are exactly the same.

Most of all if you can swing a 2000 or 3000 car buy it!

A wise man once told me in reference to the Cobra (Jack Launtz RIP)
"If you can afford the cost of admission you will always be satisfied" He owned 3047, 3021 and AM#2 GT40. He never seemed to regret his purchases...... At least to me.....

COB6111

CSX3002

KMS

CSX3006

CSX3176

CSX3047

CSX3011

CSX3020

CSX3245

CSX3047 again

CSX2396 (ok now I am just being an ass however awesome!)


To my eye all different........... Not that this is sensitivity issue just fact that hand made cars are not the same.....

1985 CCX,

Not to be nit picky, but Mr. Jack Launtz owned CSX3020 and not CSX3021. Dave Dralle also owned 3020 back in '67 / '68.

[fordracing65]

3006 is my favorite, its my screen saver, I always liked cobras in white, especially with those yellow headlights.