Aluminum Body

[Cobrafan1]

Chas, I haven't seen anything that 1ntcobra has said that is incorrect. And if so, thats fine. This is a discussion. We are all here to learn. What are your credentials as you say?

[ERA Chas]

Fan,
I am NOT questioning his credentials NOR challenging his information. Merely asking what they are or the source of his information. So that we may be confident that what we're learning is accurate Shelby / Kirkham info. I don't need credentials in this discussion as I've made no statements whatsoever, no dispute or presented anything contra to his statements as 'fact'.
My only credential on this forum is that I've built, rebuilt and used my car over the course of two-plus decades. My other credential is that I'm a 'student of the game', always anxious to learn accurate facts and never offer information outside of my own experience.
Resume your seat, and hopefully 1nt will respond to my inquiry.

[Cobrafan1]

lol, well if you have two decades of experience then you probably know all the answers, chas. I'll take my seat when you lower your nose chas...hrumph! lol

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

When you use the word "roller" in that context, I think that is wrong. I think Kirkham delivers only a frame with a body attached to Shelby.

I don't think Kirkham supplies anything else. Therefore there would be no suspension pieces, lights, wiring, gauges, wheels, tires, seats or anything that you would typically get with a roller. Shelby adds all of the other parts to build the car up to a "roller" and paints it too.

Agreed. What they get is more of the roller frame/body component... The rest is done in the shop in Vegas.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Cobrafan1

lol, well if you have two decades of experience then you probably know all the answers, chas. I'll take my seat when you lower your nose chas...hrumph! lol

Here's what I do know--at 3.7 posts per YEAR, you've surpassed three years of your contribution level in this one thread and been a smart ass to boot.
Please resume your scarceness and let this thread progress with genuine contributors. They are giving answers to questions YOU posed and I'm trying to access their accuracy for all of us. Every one else seems to have understood my comments except you.

[Cobrafan1]

lol, yes sir! You should reread your post to 1nt. Very arrogant. Rather than try and embarrass someone by questioning there "credentials" as you call it, why don't you just post your own two decades of knowledge and enlighten us. Instead you come across as an insecure bully. I for one welcome 1nt's comments and anyone else's for that matter. I could care less whether someone has "credentials" or not. The point of this forum is anyone should feel comfortable to post something. Not hesitant because some snob will try and back them into a corner and make them feel foolish. Who cares about "credentials"? Give me a break! We are all here to learn. Unless of course you have more than two decades of experience.......Ridiculous...

[computerworks]

Knock it off...

thanks
ron
ClubCobra Moderator.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

1ntCobra,
You seem to write authoritatively about both manufacturers. Now David has not participated here nor a current Shelby member, but you have provided detailed information of the sort I would expect from them. You have generously provided a wealth of reference photos with comment about all of them.
My simple question is, what is the source of your apparent wealth of knowledge? In no way am I questioning the veracity of your comments.
Indeed, I applaud them and appreciate your sharing such detailed information. I'm just trying to assess the accuracy and some 'credential' would help to do that. Other than as Jamo stated, you have been a serious 'shopper' there is no gauge by your presence here of your experience. Other than a gallery full of SAAC event attendance.
My question is NOT an attempt to discredit nor in any other way cast a negative take on your information.
Just like to gauge how accurate the source might be given the absence of the company participants.
Thanks,

ERA Chas,

A great deal of my apparent wealth of knowledge on this subject is based on following threads on CSX and Kirkham cars on clubcobra over the last few years. Hopefully my memory on past threads isn't too cloudy. I have been to both Vegas and Provo. I really do like the aluminum bodies cars. However whenever I get around to budgeting my next sports car, I doubt I'll be looking at Kirkham. Perhaps I should be paying more attention to the FFR threads.

I'm not sure I would expect David to pay attention a thread in the Shelby section. But I have noticed that the last person from the Shelby camp who paid any attention to clubcobra threads was Amy B. Perhaps the people at Shelby are not paying attention to this forum anymore.

I might also know a few things about original cobras having read a bunch of books on the subject as well as being a SAAC member since the early 1980s.

[rodneym]

Forgive me because I joined this discussion late but Kirkham is not limited to just supplying frames and bodies to SA. I'm not sure how complete Kirkham supplies them but ......

Maybe David would elaborate.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Forgive me because I joined this discussion late but Kirkham is not limited to just supplying frames and bodies to SA. I'm not sure how complete Kirkham supplies them but ......

Maybe David would elaborate.

Well, that is certainly possible.

But let's take a look at a couple pictures of CSX1021 mentioned earlier in this thread.





Those pictures appear to be CSX1021 in Vegas prior to assembly.

There was an earlier thread showing CSX1001 coming to Shelby from "AC" as a much more complete car, but later CSX1000 series cars were shipped as mostly frame/body to Shelby.

Considering that Shelby is capable of taking a pretty much bare frame/body from their new source in England and then building it up, that Shelby would be equally capable of taking a bare Kirkham frame/body and doing the same. Whether Vegas chooses to do that or get Kirkham to supply a bit more complete package than what Shelby asks for from their friends in England is certainly possible.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

ERA Chas,

A great deal of my apparent wealth of knowledge on this subject is based on following threads on CSX and Kirkham cars on clubcobra over the last few years.

I might also know a few things about original cobras having read a bunch of books on the subject as well as being a SAAC member since the early 1980s.

Thanks for your 'un-offended' response. That's exactly what I was hoping for. In fact, your background is similar to many of us who follow these cars and their history.

Thanks for sharing your observations.

[Cobrafan1]

1nt, those are the pics I was referring too. Notice that the bottom of the radiator opening is slightly more rounded than a kirkham body. Again not meaning to offend anyone. Just a little different. Also in these photos the rear fender lips seem to be the same as a Kirkham although in other photos they appear more muted. Maybe the lighting as you or another poster mentioned...

[LMH]

I can tell you all this much about that aluminum body... I wish I was "Ted Hughes"!
Larry

[KevinW]

Originally Posted by LMH

I can tell you all this much about that aluminum body... I wish I was "Ted Hughes"!
Larry

very good!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Well, that is certainly possible.

But let's take a look at a couple pictures of CSX1021 mentioned earlier in this thread.





Those pictures appear to be CSX1021 in Vegas prior to assembly.

There was an earlier thread showing CSX1001 coming to Shelby from "AC" as a much more complete car, but later CSX1000 series cars were shipped as mostly frame/body to Shelby.

Considering that Shelby is capable of taking a pretty much bare frame/body from their new source in England and then building it up, that Shelby would be equally capable of taking a bare Kirkham frame/body and doing the same. Whether Vegas chooses to do that or get Kirkham to supply a bit more complete package than what Shelby asks for from their friends in England is certainly possible.

To add to my point, here are some more pictures I took at "SAAC Does Vegas X" several years ago:



I would argue that the above 3 aluminum body/frames were sourced from Kirkham based on their oil cooler scoops. Like the current CSX1021 car, they seem to be pretty much just a frame and body.



The above picture is of CSX705?. The serial number is visible on the nose. Since it is not a CSX1000 series (I don't even know if there was ever a CSX1000 series FIA), it would be a Kirkham sourced car as well. Looks like a body/frame again. It does have a steering wheel, but that could have been installed in Vegas. Back on the picture of the 3 S/C cars, 2 of them have 2 steering wheels, but one does not.



I say that the above car is an "AC" sourced CSX1000 series based on it's oil cooler scoop, the appearance of the panels before any body work, and hey let's see if Ron is paying attention... could that black frame paint be a little too glossy.

Ohh, I see another difference. In the cockpit, the "AC" sourced CSX1000 has an "FIA suitcase panel" (not to be confused with the FIA suitcase trunk dimples on small block cars). If you don't know what I mean, check out this thread, where FatBoy added this feature to his Kirkham: FIA "Suitcase" Panel

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

... and hey let's see if Ron is paying attention... could that black frame paint be a little too glossy.

...can't tell from that pic...

But the surface of a body tips it off whether it has been rolled on a wheel or pressed....that last pic is rolled.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by computerworks

But the surface of a body tips it off whether it has been rolled on a wheel or pressed....that last pic is rolled.

What's the tip-off Ron? Additional weld seams?

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

What's the tip-off Ron? Additional weld seams?

Panels = shiny middle area, sanded edge area

[1ntCobra]

Most pictures of Kirkhams are filed, brushed or polished.

Here are a few pictures of a Kirkham welded body (prior to being filed).





The pictures are from the scratch and dent sale thread.

Kirkham SALE!!! Scratch and Dent Clean Up Do It Yourself

[1ntCobra]

Now, this is interesting. Someone supplied the link to North Devon Metalcraft earlier in this thread.

But then I found this over at Brooklands/AC Heritage: Galleries

Does this mean Shelby has two sources for CSX1000 series cars?