CSX3016 for sale through Exotic Classics, Syosset NY

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Ghiblicup

What says Ned about it?

What Ned says about it is contained in the last registry. There are a few more details known today than there were 5-6 years ago, but the fact remains that there are two separate and distinct claimed chains of ownership associated with the CSX 3016 VIN. The car that was recently at Mecum is the one that was said to have been registered in CA as CSX 3106 since roughly 1974, and the one that was reportedly restored circa '85 from a street car with round tail lights using a freshly welded-in right hand shock tower with the 3016 VIN on it. There is documentation to support these assertions. On the other side, there is a group who claims that 3016 was sold to Grossman's mechanic, Bob Dini, after it was crashed at Watkins Glen in 1966. Dini has signed a notarized affidavit claiming he knew the whereabouts of this chassis - on the east coast - until roughly 1995. Clearly, you can't have the same car on both coasts, so one car has to be a fraud. We are waiting for more details about the car on the east coast to surface, which some people connected to it say should happen soon. Meanwhile, since the car that was at Mecum is the only one physically proven to exist, it has the upper hand. SAAC and its registrar take no side in the dispute; their role is simply to present the facts as they are received.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

What Ned says about it is contained in the last registry. There are a few more details known today than there were 5-6 years ago, but the fact remains that there are two separate and distinct claimed chains of ownership associated with the CSX 3016 VIN. The car that was recently at Mecum is the one that was said to have been registered in CA as CSX 3106 since roughly 1974, and the one that was reportedly restored circa '85 from a street car with round tail lights using a freshly welded-in right hand shock tower with the 3016 VIN on it. There is documentation to support these assertions. On the other side, there is a group who claims that 3016 was sold to Grossman's mechanic, Bob Dini, after it was crashed at Watkins Glen in 1966. Dini has signed a notarized affidavit claiming he knew the whereabouts of this chassis - on the east coast - until roughly 1995. Clearly, you can't have the same car on both coasts, so one car has to be a fraud. We are waiting for more details about the car on the east coast to surface, which some people connected to it say should happen soon. Meanwhile, since the car that was at Mecum is the only one physically proven to exist, it has the upper hand. SAAC and its registrar take no side in the dispute; their role is simply to present the facts as they are received.

And there you have it folks, can't get it more direct or "black and white" than from the SAAC Registrar himself


Bill S.

[beagle]

I’m in the region where the real CSX3016 has been in the Northeast all along. I refer to the car that has always been in the Northeast as the real one because all the evidence I’m aware of and input from people over the years seems to make it a pretty clear situation. The small group of people mentioned who are familiar with the original car and have thoroughly researched its history includes a long time SAAC member very knowledgeable with original Cobras. Other SAAC veterans have been involved in providing details that helped validate everything, including a long time Cobra expert who for many years knew the owner who put the stock car body on it but didn’t find where it went to. This is not some spurious claim or story. No one wants to get thrown under the bus though, as we know the current owners of the auction car paid a lot of money for it then on top of that they poured good $ to a replica builder on LI to make it look more like the original. The replica builder then utilizing a knowledgeable outside resource for guidance and parts.

The owner of the real car has shared enough with key individuals and combined with input from numerous Cobra long-timers makes the reality of where the car went quite apparent. Maybe his reluctance in coming public seems to be tempered by a number of factors. Is there no rush for him to jump into the auction car’s mess given the financial resources of the auction car owners? The fact that he’s not looking to sell it so he's not really motivated? That's his business. Time doesn’t change the truth and will not make the car disappear. Ive been told there are reportedly something like a dozen witnesses who, if it came down to it, could be subpoenaed to substantiate the demonstrated ownership history all the way back to new. I was also told that when it was purchased around 1970 from the fellow who converted it into a stock car, the only parts of the car that were not original were portions of the body replaced and associated pieces that were damaged in the wreck Grossman had, ie it was a complete car.

The auction car, on the other hand, seems to have just popped out of thin air on the other side of the country and has no solid proof of any valid connection to the original – traceability is the most basic tenet of provenance. The witness of the shock tower bracket change to me only adds to the evidence of how maybe it was a street car with an identity changed with no proof that anyhting real from 3016 was used. Anyway I have little doubt where the original car went - and it didn’t end up at auction recently.

Please let me make it crystal clear that I am basing my opinion solely on facts I have read and from people I have spoken to. To date I have never personally seen either car in person and or what remains of it. I look forward to the day I see them both firsthand.

Respectfully,

Steven

[1985 CCX]

Well said Ned.............

As for the owner of 3016, I am told pictures of the parts are coming.....
If I get them I will post.......... With permission of course

BTW: If you ever have a couple million to spare always do your homework as you should always be sure you get what you are buying is authentic. As for the Syosset car, Hmmmmm speechless.

[buddyg]

That's one of the good things about buying a replica! I know mine is an imposter!

[Thor maine]

I don't know which one is the "real one" or the "fake" but at this point I don't care. We have been hearing about the real 3016 for years now and all about this top secret location, under ground, barn find, hidden from the world, owner wants to stay out of the public eye, I heard from a friend of a friend, I heard from an expert on Cobra's, I now a guy who new a guy who heard from Harvey the guy next to the knothole in the fence that the real 3016 was in Connecticut or somewhere on the East coast. Enough, put up or shut up! The guy who has the real CSX3016 picture, journalist, come into the light or shut the F UP.

[computerworks]

...at this point I don't care...The guy who has the real CSX3016 picture, journalist, come into the light or shut the F UP.

Thor... a little harsh contribution.

This forum is for discussion of many topics... some serious, some technical, some frivolous, some just goofy.

No need to call anyone out on their posts or opinions.

Thanks
ron
ClubCobra Moderator.

[Nedsel]

But I can see how someone with a Chevy under the hood of his Contemporary might find the discussion about an almost 50-year old relic tiresome.

[CSX3183]

He sounds like a foreneer to me, sumpthin we don't cotton to down here, perhaps his actions could be termed,,, UNAMERICAN, I mean at least it's biasphemy

[rodneym]

We all hear your frustration, Thor, but we're not talking about a fake Rolex.

The preservation, history and authenticity of a 60's Shelbys must be taken very seriously. There's simply too much at stake.

If I was buying/selling a $1M piece of art, I'd want to make absolutely sure I wasn't buying a fake or misrepresenting what I was selling.

[Thor maine]

To the Moderator I do apologize for the implied F-Bomb. To the rest of the responders I say you can't see the forest for the trees in your small little world. If the "3016" that sold is a fake repo, then it is the "Fake Rolex" and the guy with the real one should come to the light of day and prove it. Because if "the guy" does not then all cars will come into question, and the value of all cars comes into question and will fall. If "3016" has a claim then we can stop with the " I now a guy, I heard of a guy, I now of a guy who now's a guy who heard a story from Harvey the guy next to the whole in the fence about CSX3016 was in the Northeast Under ground, barn find hidden from the world...... If the East coast Under ground 3016 is real come into the light, a few experts, some journalist, some pictures and stop being BIGFOOT! And for almost 35 years I have been the owner of my HotRod shaped like a Cobra how many of you can say that?

[Thor maine]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

My question is , when does a real genuine Shelby from the 60's stop being a real genuine Shelby from the 60's??? So say you have a real genuine Shelby from the 60's that has done a lot of racing. Ok so being a racer it does not have the original motor that being the nature of racing you change and destroy engines. and say that maybe the car has been in so much race action that very little of the original body is left. And say that we throw in a few major accidents and the main frame rail has been replaced and say while you are there you replace the other rail to with a thicker higher quality tubing and a lot of the suspension is replaced with higher quality pieces( Carroll Shelby said " Ac used a lot of pot metal". So is this car still a real genuine Shelby Cobra???

That's owner /builder.

[Thor maine]

Feel the Power of the Dark Side, long live the Bow Tie in my HotRod shaped like a Cobra.

[Nedsel]

[quote=Thor maine;1288915] Because if "the guy" does not then all cars will come into question, and the value of all cars comes into question and will fall.

I think it is clear there are some erroneous assumptions here, and the process of trying to see the forest for the trees has been subverted.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

I think it is clear there are some erroneous assumptions here...

and naivety with regard to the complications of going directly head-on up against multiple owners of the auction car with very deep pockets...

[Nedsel]

Oh, c'mon and jump in the ring. You can take it.

[mickmate]

Something about living in a glasshouses and throwing stones............

[LMH]

I see 3016 is for sale on eBay: Shelby 2 Door | eBay

Larry

[Nedsel]

The feedback rating of the seller (85.7 %) is less than outstanding.

[mickmate]

Their feedback is a lot clearer than his descriptions from the looks.