Hide your heads in shame!!!!!

[Anthony]

Actually, I view the original CSX3000 cobra's almost like Kit-Cars, as AC built the rolling chassis's, ford supplied the drivetrain which Shelby installed and then sold to the public. Almost like a current Superformance dealer set-up, eh. But, I think shelby was "registered as the manufacturer" subject to federal guidelines/rules for car manufacturers, which the superformance dealer is not. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think Shelby American can sell completed CSX4000's, as these would have to meet emission standards like the series 1's to be street legal. Again, correct me if I am wrong. I don't think Ford could manufacture 1965 mustangs again, as they could not meet current guidelines, but they could sell 1965 mustang components, body parts, suspension, driveline parts if they chose to do, and then any private individual could assemble the parts as they pleased.

I think the only logical way SAI can sell Cobra's again is by component form, and have private individual's or other companies register the cars with the government.

One reason I didn't buy an Autocraft is that they are titled as 1986's or whatever. I wanted my cobra to be just like the way they were back in 1966, with no restictions on how I want to modify it, ever.

I view my CSX4000 as a "Shelby Cobra", as the parts were manufactured by SAI, and has a SAI CSX serial number. Obviously it is not a 1966 CSX3000 cobra, but I knew that, and probably everyone else who bought one. Even though I took out a loan for it, I probably could have taken out a much bigger loan for an original CSX3000, but I wanted something BRAND NEW, not a car with a frame half rusted from the inside-out. Besides, the CSX4000 had some other features like a fuel cell. For me, it was the right decision.

To each his own.

[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited 08-02-2000).]

[Jason Len]

I keep hearing $100,000+ for the CSX cars. This is only for a completed alloy bodied car. If you buy the component fiberglass car you can build one youself for around $65,000 to $70,000, which is what most people are spending on the high end quality kits by the time they are completed. If anyone would like a color brochure and current price sheet showing the true costs please email me your address and I will mail it to you at no charge.
Regards
Jason
XKs Motorsports-Shelby American Dealer

[mr bruce]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the understanding that no cars were sold to individuals, only to "dealers" who would then finish the car. Is the "base" price still $42k? If so, a price reduction of only $5k would bring in many more customers. If you were to build any of the"replicas" with all new parts and irs the prices wouldn't be that far apart. Maybe this is something SA should look into insread of running for the lawyers.

[Anthony]

Bruce, yes, I think you can't buy directly from SAI, but you can buy an unfinished "kit" from a dealer. I heard through the grapevine that some dealers would not sell unfinished cars, but my dealer will, and I think others would as well. The price of the "kit" when I ordered mine was 42K. Since then, the price increased to 45, and now I think 47K for a 427S/C, prices determined by SAI.

When I priced other "kits", a roughly similarly equipped ERA, with knock-offs and other small pieces was about 35-37K if I remember correctly. A High-Tech was I think in the upper 30's as well. ERA "kits" had some nice features as such pre cut carpets, bonded panels, etc, to make the assembly a little easier, as well as a build manual. The High-Tech also came as partially built, with panels and body mounted, which the CSX4000 does not.

[John McMahon]

Isn't it true that there is NO MANUAL if you buy the kit? If so...WHY?

Sounds to me like SAI frowns on folks building the car themselves.

I would like to get a headcount of those CC memebers that own CSX4000's...how many have built their own car?

I would also like a headcount of anyone who has paid less that $85K for one.

[Cobranut]

When I was researching kits, SAI priced their kit at $45K and it was less complete than my Unique pallet kit at $21K.
I built my car myself and was told by many at Carlisle and Cobrafest that I had the best Cobra replica they had ever seen. (Which was quite flattering.) It was recently appraised at $64K, so I feel I got a pretty good deal.
To have built a CSX4000 to the same standards would have taken nearly twice as long and cost about $25-$30K more. I would've probably built a Beck Lister before I'd have spent that on a Cobra. (I still may someday.)

Later,
David

[Jason Len]

As an authorized Shelby CSX dealer I can assure you I would be glad to sell you a "component" car if you are inclinde to build one yourself. They are by far the most accurate continuation of the '60s cars you can purchase anywhere.( A Unique is a good "kit car" but is not built anywhere near like what the '60s car were built like.) Many of the kit cars today are good performing modern sports cars, if assembled correctly, but they do not feel or drive like an original Cobra so it really depends on what you are looking for>
If you would like literature about the cars please feel free to contact me.
Regards
Jason Len
XKs Motorsport
Authorized Shelby CSX Dealer

[meat]

Jason,
While I can understand why you'd like to distance the CSX replica from the rest of the replica pack, the way you're going about it is incorrect.

The Shelby, while a good replica, it's necessarily the most accurate one out there. It's not an original CSX, it's not even a continuation car. It is a car that is made from a kit; a kit car. A replica. Made by a company that hasn't been in the kit car business all that long, either. While XKs does have a pretty good track record with the Smiths gauges, etc., Shelby American's track record is ... well, let's just go with "spotty" right now.

I'm not in any way trying to be unkind towards the product that you sell. I would love to own a CSX car. I choose not to at this time because I don't think that the quality is as good as most of the other replicas that are out there. I've seen the aluminum car, I've seen the fiberglass car. I can say this with some authority.

Additionally, the Shelby car is actually further removed from the CSX car than just about any other replica out there. The Shelby is a replica of the Hi-Tech, which is a replica of a CSX car. Most Cobra replicas are not that far removed. And while Mustang II componentry is available in a number of replicas, it's not quite correct to be as absolute as you are when you state "...they are far more than a "kit car" or replica built on Mustang 2 components..."

Further, it has been show time and again that almost all Cobra replicas hold their value remarkably well. Many of them are actually considered to be worth more when they are completed than the costs inherent in building them. This isn't an absolute, and there are some people out there who will overbuild a Cobra - and I'm sure that the CSX replicas are no exception. On a Cost/Sale comparison, I'm sure that the CSX replica will do no better or worse than any other Cobra replica.

Having had the opportunity to drive a number of original CSX cars as well as a bunch o' replicas, I would also point out that authenticity isn't necessarily a good thing; the original cars were mis-aligned, overheating monsters that had questionable handling as well as braking capabilities. Acceleration, of course, isn't even in question - the direction the car takes when you punch it and it hooks up, on the other hand, is. If the new CSX replica is based on exactly the same parameters as the original cars were (which, judging by the aluminum car they just might be), that's certainly not a good selling point in my book.

Good luck with your CSX replicas, and please feel free to mail me a brochure and pricing guide. I look forward to seeing more posts from you, and if I'm ever up your way I'll certainly drop by!

Your pal,
Meat.

[Brad Pfeifer]

Jason,

Ditto to what Meat said.

I would encourage you to spend some time with a dictionary and understand the meaning of the words you are using. In this thread you have inferred that the CSX cars you are selling are both 'real' and 'kits'. It is quite difficult to be both.

There are no Superformance kits. Short of the engine/transmission, it is completely done, and thoroughly authentic. If I can buy your CSX 'kit' and build it, what do I have other than a kit car. Anthony hit upon a point about being a 'manufacturer', and here is the crux of the biscuit - both the CSX cars and the Superformance cars are built by 'Chassis manufacturers.' If either was a 'auto manufacturer,' they would be subject to very stringent guidelines from a number of organizations including EPA.

About all the 'replica' CSX cars share with the 'real' CSX cars is the frontman, Carroll Shelby. Short of that you are left with a car, that when compared to others, may or may not be "far superior" as you claim.

I wish you luck in your endeavor, but remember that the people who have that kind of cash to put down are probably pretty intelligent and can tell a kit from the real thing.

Brad

[Cobranut]

Brad,

You mention the Superformance being "thoroughly authentic". It is no more authentic than Unique, ERA, and several others in that it uses a rectangular tube frame. This is not a detraction, as the round tube frames are not particularly rigid, but a rectangular tube frame is not "authentic".
I didn't build my car to mislead people into thinking it was an "authentic Cobra", and I seriously doubt that a knowledgable person could be fooled as such, as I'm not fooled into thinking that CSX4000's are "authentic Cobras" either.

Later,
David

PS: Jason, Why did you stop carrying the Smiths gauges? It seems kind of funny as they are used in the CSX4000 replicas you are now building.


[This message has been edited by Cobranut (edited 08-03-2000).]

[xcessive1]

david-i got the same response from a lot of people at the car show i went to last weekend. a few people liked superformance,but were not happy that you could not by a uncompleted car. its nice to hear people say "i have looked at a lot of kits and this by far is the nicest i've seen". by they way your car did look good at carlisle but i was to busy oogleing my kit!!!!!!!!!!chris

[Louisiana Lawyer]

To the Thieving Smith Brothers,

While you adamantly deny Shelby's allegations, why don't you also deny that Shelby American is the manufacturer of record (of the Cobra), NOT Factory Five. Why do you also deny that Shelby American or it's customers won over 25,000 races, including 15 National Championships and the World's Manufacturer's Championship. I'm sure they didn't do that along with Ford for you two pipsqueaks thieving brothers along with the other knock-offs to try and steal that legacy. I'm sure its okay with Shelby that it's business as usual for you. That merely means that after Shelby kicks your ass, you'll owe him for every one you ever sold. I happen to be a lawyer who has an honest Shelby 427. I can assure you that your claim of abandonment defense will never stand up. Your lawyers have not even looked up the latest case law.

As far as being offered help by the other knock-off thieves, that's only logical. Thieves always stick together. Get all you can get from them now. Their ships are going down also. You guys all seem to be trying to justify that what another person accomplished. You have every right to steal. On a personal note, I'm laughing my ass off just waiting to see you thieves crying in the end. In closing, how stupid of you to state that this is the final chapter of the Shelby legacy. I just ordered a Series I. Shelby, the creator of Cobra's legacy, will shine long after you knock off thieves cease to exist.

[John McMahon]

Ahhh.....Mr. Jack Dilbert from Cobra Forum!

And how are you today my fine illiterate lawyer?

Me thinks that thou is just a pimply 16 year old wannabee!

Can't even come up with a second original post, the teenager with the limited vocabulary must cut and paste his Cobra Forum response.

Okay, did they teach you this in school yet..."If a train left Chicago heading for NY with a 5MPH tailwing and another left NY heading for Chicago with no wind, who would get there first?"

Those who cannot use their real names should be ashamed. How do your parents feel about you sitting at the computer late at night with one hand in your pants?

Shame on you...you'll go blind.

Now go and wash those hands, its almost time for dinner Beaver!

HAHAHAAHAHA

[Ron Daveley]

Spoken like a true lawyer !!!

Ron

[Tom T.]

Hey, I'm a true lawyer, and I don't speak like that. Neither do a lot of other true lawyers I know.

Tom T.

[Robert Evans]

WOW! 25,000 races won by Shelby or its' customers? I don't think that there have even been that many races since 1963. He must be including all the races for the bathroom after 10 cups of morning coffee.

Oh, BTW. What is the CSX number for your 427 Shelby, anyway? Inquiring minds would like to know. Maybe that Cobra was made by ERTL or Mattel, and not Shelby.

Bob



[This message has been edited by Robert Evans (edited 08-04-2000).]

[Ron Daveley]

Tom:

Sorry for the slander.

Ron

[aumoore]

Dear Louisiana Lawyer(come on Carrol come out of the closet)

You list Unique as your Cobra make, with a 427/351w/ 427 stroker and a Tremic and you have the guts to call all manufacturers as knockoff artist? The last time I checked The Weavers are not related to you...uh I mean Mr Shelby and a 427W stroker is not a 427 or 428 FE series. Also the Tremic was not around in the 60's.

Mr. Lawyer or whoever you are.Wayne? please come out of the Closet on the trading dresses issue and give us your real name.

P.S. Louisiana has its own law system correct? So keep your butt there and leave the rest of us law abiding citizens alone.

[Tom T.]

Ron,

It's cool. I'll admit, there are a lot of lawyers out there that deserve to burn. But there are also some pretty decent sorts.

Best regards,

Tom T.

[Cal Metal]

Louisiana.......hmmm.......it could be Huey Long's ghost coming back to haunt...... We could change "Everyman is King but no man wears a Crown" to "Every Cobra is King but not all Cobras are King Cobras". A little humor for Bob Evans, resident archivist and guardian-in-residence of the Dave MacDonald fan club.

[This message has been edited by Cal Metal (edited 08-04-2000).]