NO CSX FOR ME. Here is why!!!

[Turk]

I flew to Las Vegas about a year ago and one of my main reasons to travel was to see if I could give you my business while traveling on business . I had seen only one of your new replicars at Pleasanton Fairgrounds Goods Guys Car Show.

I kind a liked it, and thought it was a cute car. The paint and preparation for paint was not up to my expectations. I figured maybe I could get a Roller Car from you guys and have it painted by a competent painter locally.

I arrived there with my boss, and looked around while he shopped at your gift shop. I did not know at the time he was buying a (#12 Car) poster for my birthday that he later framed and surprised me with.

When I was there in your showroom, I was told I could not tour the assembly area, because I did not have an appointment. That was a turn off. What really did it for me, was the attitude of the two men I met while I was there.

I came prepared to write a check for partial payment. I was actually ready to give you a deposit.

In case you think I am making this up, look up in your records you'll see that you sent me some literature (twice) under my name and I also received a phone call from someone earlier telling me about your management changes and price increases and that he was the new guy and that I would have to go through if I wanted one of these collectibles.

Don't look up under "Turk" look up under Aytac "TURK" Ercen, either Fairfield, CA or Vacaville CA.

Having been somewhat attentive to my needs in correspondence and by phone I felt somewhat comfortable in showing up to see if I could place an order.

I guess the two fellows manning the floor that day must not like "foreigners". My accent must have been a turn off to them; they acted like they couldn't be bothered. What amazes me is most of us Americans think when we encounter a "Foreigner" with an accent and or broken English, we always act as if they also can't hear. We either talk to them LOUDLY hoping that will help, and also don't pay attention to what we say when they are within an earshot.

I have lived in US 35 years of my 54 years. I have been an American Citizen longer than your kids unless they are over 36 years old. I recognize it when I encounter prejudice. It was very unbecoming for anyone doing business in year 2000 to behave that way. Especially in an international city like Las Vegas.

I dismissed it at the time and wrote it off to your ignorance. I shouldn't have. Maybe I should have pursued it with the lawyers and see how much stink I could raise. It wasn't my style, and it still isn't.

I don't have an axe to grind, I am not employed by one of your competitors, and as a matter of fact I still don't own a Replica Cobra as I write this.

I was as good a prospect (an up) as you were going to get that day. You blew it. There were no others in the showroom, it was raining like crazy outside, I was soaked just getting out of my rental car to your door. I suppose I did not get the Red Carpet treatment I had hoped for. I would have settled for a dry towel.

I don't know the exact date, but you could look it up yourself. I too can furnish you the rental car receipts, airline ticket information if need be to pin point the exact date. I was in town for the General Motors Convention. You see I am also in the automobile business, selling real cars. Not kits. This vehicle was for me. For my personal use.

For the two guys demonstrating their ignorance that day, all I have to say is if you check your ancestry, you'll see that you too may be a foreigner on your father's and maybe even your mother's side as well.
Offsprings of those arriving by Mayflower are no more American than those of us arriving by slave ships or by TWA in the 1960s. Shame on you.

Why am I writing this, I am writing because, of all I have been reading about you guy's heavy handed attitude towards those who have kept the COBRA flame lit for the last 30 years or so.

Seeing that you guys are no strangers to lawsuits, I had to wonder if I did the right thing by gracefully leaving your premises that day after purchasing a poster (#12 Car).

I should have raised hell while I was there or when I got back. I did not do that primarily because I don't have the time, I am busy trying to earn a living by selling cars, not suing others. I have no lawyers on my staff. All our revenues are derived from actual sales not lawsuits.

Incase you wonder why I am so upset, it is primarily because of two elements. In 35 or so years I have never been referred to as a "Sand-Ni**ER" by anyone. It took almost 2 minutes to decipher what it meant. Then I learned that the expression (as offensive as it is) is used to refer to Arabs.

Your ignorance allowed me to drop the matter; if you were a better student of history you too would know that Turks are not Arabs. Nothing wrong with Arabs, just that we are not one.

Geographic proximity does not make me anymore an Arab than your location makes you a Mexican because you are 500 or so miles away.

Other than getting extremely offended at the use of the "N" word, I got a chuckle out of knowing that I had the final laugh. I still had my check in my pocket and left knowing that your loss was going to be someone else's gain.

It took more than a year before I handed a $5000.00 deposit check to someone else, because I felt their reproduction was better than your reproduction. Their treatment of me and my business was certainly far more respectful!

I suppose this is a veiled threat suggesting, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword". Fortunately for you, I have elected to take my revenge in my own way. First by giving my business to someone else. Second by letting others know who they are dealing with when they do business with you boys down there. Third I am doing my best to tell others about the lack of quality in your car.

In California (different than most states) Motor Vehicle code as it applies to Auto Dealers states that an agent of a dealership (ie.salesman) is responsible for all written and verbal commitments and representations. Whatever the salesperson promises obligates the dealership.

I don't know about Nevada. It is deemed to be a Business friendly state and may not have similar protections for the consumer. If your salesman (I wish I knew his name) said to me in California what he said to me that day, I would stand to make a lot off money from your company.

No I am not talking about the slander, and the derogatory remarks. To make money on that I would have to retain a lawyer and sue the pants of you. Then I would have to share the proceeds with the lawyers. No I don't want to do that, not yet anyways.

The comment that is more damaging is telling me that my "Original Cobra" that would now cost me about $85,000 or so would be worth almost $200,000 when the old guy dies".

I don't know when that is, it does not matter. In California you don't need that in writing to collect on it. Salesman promising that is binding enough. It would just be a matter of waiting game. I would be able to sell it back to you for a hefty profit. If you are still around by then.

I realize there is a lot of venom in what I wrote. For all you know I could be making all this up because I am angry at your company's stance with the lawsuit against FFR and Replica Car Industry. I am angry, and have posted a few posts to that effect. This is different, this is real.

Verify the dates of the GM convention, The weather to see if it was raining, cash register receipts to see if a (#12 car Poster) was sold, and see if there were two guy in the showroom One blond about 6' and about 220lbs the other darker hair and darker complexion and a blond lady at the gift shop cash register. You'll see if I am telling the truth or not.

You should be ashamed of your own arrogance, and you would never have heard from me again, had it not been for your lawyer happy behavior. I just wondered if you care to spend any of your own money defending against this.

The Aluminum block is cancelled. Dove Roller Rockers will be used instead of yours in my 427SOiler.

I am still getting even. Power of the pen is mightier than the diarrhea of the mouth!

Signed,
A Sand N***ER.

ps. If you don't like the tone of this and happened to be the moderator of this forum and feel you are better off deleting it... please don't.
It is not difficult to post it elsewhere. Leave it where it belongs, besides there is a lot less traffic in this area than other threads. Less people will read it.


[This message has been edited by Turk (edited 07-22-2000).]

[Specialk]

SAI salesmen called you a sand ******? That is an outrage! I would not have waited so long to pass on this info!! My opinion of that place is sinking faster than the Titanic. I hope you enjoy your new car.

[Turk]

Others I have shared the story with were more outraged than I was, or am.

The reasons are very simple, It would be like me calling someone from France, "You dirty Greek". If the recipient of such a slurr is not of Greek ancestry, How does he get angry?

I would have been royally pissed off if I was indeed an Arab.Being an American of Turkish origin, I couldn't except giggle.

I wonder what made him think I was an Arab.? Could it be the camel I parked outside their door? hmmmm.

The comment was made within an earshot of me, when I, (as nicely as I could) told the guy visiting with me that I did not think a brief walkaround of their facilities was such a big request and that it may sway my decision to go with this manufacturer over another.

I indicated that I would not spend my money with someone so reluctant to share with me what their facilities looked like etc. As nice as I was, I might have had a tinge of sarcasm, or anger and dissapointment in my voice. His reaction to me was not rude, but when he walked away and started telling the other fellow what was going on... I could clearly hear the reference.

Like I said, I am Turkish. Not Deaf!!

Had he said it to my face, I might have reacted differently. Most people of that ilk usually do not have the accompanying pair to go with their pencil D**CKs to say it to your face.

Turk

[John McMahon]

Turk,

Good way to sell 100K cars.

I thought this type of attitude died years ago...but to hear it and hear it from someone in the retail business is absolutely ludicrous! Their career in the car industry will last as long as the sexual cycle of a gnat.

JM

[Matt M FFR 1502]

Good post, Turk. Those of us who consider ourselves evolved beyond sub human status need to know when people we could potentially do business with behave in that fashion. It is courageous of you to come forward. Cheers, Matt M.

[shrew bellyed]

the titanic took nearly three hours to sink. the high point of a company is sometimes described as "the finest hour". are saying someone is overdue? this gentleman is correct a sand-****** is someone in a turban, not a damned fez! learn your slurs(and the hats that go with them) or don't ever ever be the fool to utter them!
happiness is a blown cobra(coz got one why can't we?)

[Turk]

Mr. shrew,
What is wrong with you? A search on Club Cobra yields only a few posts from you. Ironically what little you had to say has been in defense of SAI. How long have you been waiting to do that?

You had no other contribution to make other than chime in on the side of slander and name calling? That is it?

If I were you, I would think twice before I wrote. While you talk you probably can't help when words come out of your mouth faster than your brain can process. However when you write, the process is slow enough even for you to be able to read and re-write.

You think "sand-******" is someone in a Turban not a "damned fez". Is that right? How up to date are you in international matters that you think Turks are still wearing a Fez?
Those wearing a turban "Arabs" are "sand-******s"? Wow! in the year of 2000, someone who is intelligent enough to turn the computer on, can really think and feel that way!

Come back Martin! Comeback Malcom! Your work obviously not finished yet! If you have such deragotary names for the rest of us, you certainy must have some choice words for your family members, especially the females in your trailer.


If you would go to the aid of Carroll because a friend of his died, you should be a little more charitable towards Turks (a long time American and Nato ally) who had a lot of men die while fighting along side Americans in Korea.

Truly the phrase "Shame on you!" must have been coined for the likes of you. I would like to think that there are not too many like you, but so far I have found at least 3, and for some strange reason they are all around the same geographical area and all supporters of SAI and Carroll Shelby? Very strange. It is now coming all together. It must be all that radiation from nuclear tests conducted not too far from your location. You wouldn't possibly be that person I had referred to earlier in another post I wrote, would you?

By the way, the contribution of Turks, Greeks, Arabs, French, Irish and Italians and whatever, have done nothing other than enhance the culture, the heritage and strength of this nation. I and many "foreigners" came here on our own and by our own desire.

The act off abondoning our birthplace, giving up our citizenship to become a first generation American is no less honorable than being born here (by no choice of yours) because your father or his grandfather made the sacrifices I did as a young man. What did you do? Just born to your parents?

Do you ever wonder if, just maybe if, the conspiracy to bring all them "furners" into Amereica is maybe for the purposes of improving the gene pool?

Just think what this country would be like if, it depended on people like you and those of your ilk only, for propagation, what mutations would be coming to the scene in a few hundred years?

I am proud to display my real name when I write. I have what it takes to write my thoughts, whereas you, you have to hide behind an alias that most can't decipher.

If you believe in your convictions and the thoughts are really yours, why don't you spell out your real name for all those to see who you are?

Since I came to this country to make a contribution not to suck it dry, I will again go to work and help all those who need help.I feel charitable tonight and I will start with you and help you as much as I can. I am that kind a man.

1-If you hold down the key marked "Shift" you will be able to capitalize where it is necessary and neeeded.

2-Titatic the movie took three hours. Your information about historical events must come from other sources besides Cinema and TV. THERE IS NO BATMAN. SUPERMAN IS JUST A COMIC CHARACTER.

3-Make up your mind and stick with it. Is it an FFR or an ERA or ERTL you own (displayed in your profile). Unless you wants us to believe you own one of each.

4-If you "like silly banter", get silly and be funny. Let us decide when you are. So far you are neither.

5-Manners are not a liability. Those who act if "The school is out!".......
NO CLASS, will miss in their education.

6-Take the headphones off, get rid of the rap music, turn your hat the right way, pull up your pants to your waist and get a job. You too will learn to love this country, and all it has in it. Not just the trailer park you are holed up in.

7-Did you know they now have color TV and sterephonic music. You can turn the faucet in your home get hot or cold water out of the same place. Simply amazing. get out more often and you may surprise yourself and may even like what you see.

8-It is a very old saying but it is a classic. It is better to keep your mouth shut and let others think you are an idiot ,than open it and remove all doubt.. (or something like that).

9-What do you mean "some people don't like to pay for play"? I did not know that CS wanted a licensing fee, for Replica Cars. I thought he wanted the molds destroyed. So where does that leave us? Those of us who want to 'Play' have to buy from SAI or go without. Can you say "MONOPOLY".

10-What if they decide they don't want to build any more CSX4000s because we don't want to pay $100,000 and they go on to other ventures...will they give FFR's the molds back and tell them it is ok to go back to production again?

11-What if FFR sold couple of more thousand Cobras, will SAI come back and sue again?

12-Any company that behaves so maliciously and predatory SHOULD go out of business.

Before you behave like the guardian angel for those rich boys at SAI, you should use some of your free time urging them to build better quality and better customer awareness. Have you ever looked at their car close up. Remove the CS endorsement, what do you have. A car barely better than an FFR. I don't even like FFRs. SO there I said it. The CSX SUX. It is not a car worth the price of two Corvettes.

13-Have you noticed the request for a part post on their forum from a customer of theirs? Do you see a response to it yet? Try asking a question or two on other areas and see how long before other manufacturers repond to customers and (not customers questions). You want us all to patronize the people you so adore? Why? So we can all be at their mercy?

14-I urge you to repent and come clean, you never know..There are lot of Christians in this country, it is their belief and practice to forgive and forget. They may re admit you back to the ranks of human beings. As it sits you are far removed from the evolution process that God has blessed the rest of us with.

ps. Christians may forgive you, I am not one. I won't. I will be at many an event when I get my car, Run and Gun, Knott's Berry etc. Please come over and introduce yourself, and call me a "Sand-******" to my face. I have this built in frustration with people like you, unfortunately I just can't get them rednecks to do in person what they do best behind a keyboard in anonimity.
It would give me an opportunity to take all my frustrations on you.
How will you recognize me? Easy..I will be the one NOT wearing a Fez.

Now go kick the dog, beat up your wife, and get those sofa and old tires of the front porch, open up a fresh bottle of Thunderbird, while pondering what it would have been like to have finished 10th grade.

Say goodnite shrew.

Aytac "Turk" Ercen



[This message has been edited by Turk (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Gary Adams]

[TURK
Your way ahead of the game-and you know it.
#1-Advice given to me a long time ago,the more you know about people,the better you can make decisions concerning both of you.You know the salesman at SAI and did not do business with them.
#2-You purchased a great car from a great company.
Also concerning Shrew,I read his reply 5 times-I could be wrong but Im not sure he wanted to come off in a negative way to you.Only towards SAI sales staff.His words ran together a bit,but til he replys again I would give him the benifit of yhe dought.
He seemed more excited about a blower for his car than giving more atention to SAI negitives.If Im wrong I stand corrected.

[Brad Pfeifer]

Turk,

You used a couple of the most important terms in your first post, "ignorance" perhaps being an understatement. For an individual to use a term "Sand Ni**er", it merely states the fact, rather loudly, of their own incredible ignorance. "Ni**er" has been a derogatory term used to describe people with darker skin, meant as some kind of insult. To add "sand" to it only allows them to insult a greater number of people. Again, being ignorant, these morons don't have the ability to think of anything really profound, and far be it from their feable minds to differentiate between nationalities, let alone comprehend the geographical differences between them.

We should park our "non-Shelby Cobra's" in front of Burger City and laugh about these fools over a beer.

Brad

[Brad Pfeifer]

Turk,

An addition. Before somebody goes off on me. Yes, I know, feeble is spelled 'feeble', not feable.

I agree with Gary, I believe "Shrew" was agreeing with you, but the fez thing was kind of dumb. The Shriners wear fez's - whats that make them, and what the hell does it matter?

Regarding his car, he has nothing. A problem has been noticed lately that if you don't put anything into the field, it pulls in the last respondants info. Look back, Matt FFR is the one with the blown 302. A system mistake, not Shrew's. But that fez comment...

Brad

[Murt Farcus]

Turk.....you might want to consider Jessel rocker arms...I had Dove rockers and aluminum head. Kept breaking the rockers and could never keep the valves set. Switched to Jessel......"0" probems....with the rockers that is.

[Specialk]

Turk,

You seem to be a very articulate man. More so than most backward rednecks. I read the shrew charactor's comment and I can't make heads or tails of it. I hate to see a bad situation turned worse by ignorance. I hope your car is coming along well. Go with the Dove rockers, they kick ass. Long live the Cobra(roadster?)

kris

[shrew bellyed]

mr. ercen,
i apologize, for my message was a little cryptic. i did write, however, don't ever be the fool to utter them. malcom was a racist, sorry. the titanic info is courtesy of national geographic's recent commemorative book. i served my country proudly, for 6 years when it was polically incorrect to do so. i'm sad that you are so angry over this situation, that it has brought a dark cloud over a hobby that should be the gleaming illustration of your fastidious fortitude. i applaud your willingness to overcome adversity, and make the path to your future for yourself, rather than complain that it was not given to you. there must be a system error. i entered nothing for the vehicle description fields. to close i quote abraham lincoln- " We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection..."

[Dan Semko]

Bravo Turk,
The ignorance actively portrayed at SAI appears to be a common denominator with their entire organization. I've had interactions with Wayne Stoker, who is indeed a forked tongued politician. I heard similar words spoken when I was in Viet Nam by our very own soldiers when they referred to the Vietnamese as "gooks". The word when translated properly means "foreigner" which meant that we Americans were truly out of our element. My father in law was a first generation Greek and stopped a fellow one day, who was also bad mouthing foreigners by asking him if his parents were American Indians or criminals, since they were the original founders of America. He may have had only a sixth grade education, but definitely had his "doctorate" in good, common street sense! Malcolm X and Stokley Carmichael, both preached a common doctrine that suppression breeds violence. Unfortunately they also preached that violence is an acceptable means to gain change, which we've learned is far from wise.
Don't let the SAI ignorance gravel you, the last laugh is always the best and when their entire organization changes and they make ALL of their current employees alumini, they'll be wishing that they hadn't closed the doors on future opportunity. We WILL be waiting for the opportunity to balance the score, gentlemen, and we have plenty of time and more expendable funds than you can ever imagine! I'm personally waiting for Mr. Stoker to cross into our state for some "good old Hoosier hospitality"!

DDS/The First Edition

[Turk]

Brad,
Thanks for the reply. I too was a little concerned that I may not be interpreting the cryptic post from "shrew" correctly. However his references to head-gear and the tone of his earlier posts at other places gave me the freedom to err on the side of what I thought he meant. I too could be mistaken, but not likely.

By the way I thoroughly appreciated you dropping by Saturday to show off your car. That is why stopped by right? I am sure you did not come by my place of employment to demonstrate your support of my point of views on Club Cobra!

I don't blame you wanting to show that Superformance off, you have a beautiful car, and certainly gave me the idea to start making a long list of people I need to go visit as soon as my car is finished. I wish I could remember all their names.

ps.We will have an opportunity to drive to breakfast in separate cars soon enough. At the mean time, if you need a passenger to ride along please feel free to give me a call a day earlier, I would be glad to tag along.
Turk

[Turk]

Murt,

Thanks for the reply to my post. I am sure Jessels are very good. I have been acquiring my mechanical components from George Anderson of Gessford Machine and he highly recommended the Doves. His expertise exceeds mine, and until he proves me wrong I have elected to trust his judgement and recommendations implicitly. A joy to deal with and a fine gentleman.

You say you used them on aluminum heads, mine are standard low rise iron heads, that may have had something to do with his recommendations. What I am building is a very tame .30 over 427 SO. Low riser manifold, LR heads, and somewhat modest cam. I hope the Doves will be good enough.If they break, next one will be Jessel or Harlan Sharpe.

Turk

[Turk]

Specialk,

I am glad you too had a difficulty deciphering "shrew's" comments. I did not want to be the only one not recognizing what he meant where others had no problem understanding him.
English is not my native tongue, and it is possible to have misunderstood what he was trying to say. But I opted for the heavy handed approach, assuming the worst. My anger is really not at him, it is towards SAI, and supporters of their attitude. "shrew" gave me an opportunity to unload.

Turk.
ps. My car should be coming along ok, I suppose, since I took the low road and asked for a roller. I have more faith in ERA's ability to build it than mine. I know they are slow, but I am not sure that I would have been any faster. It is better and safer this way.

[Jason Len]

Dear Turk,

As a dealer for the new CSX Shelby Cobras I was very disturbed to read of your experience. There is certainly no excuse for it!!
I am only a dealer and cannot speak for the factory, but I hate to see any ill feelings regarding service or politics when it comes to these cars. After all this is just a hobby, we are not talking politics or religion are we?
If you are ever in the San Luis Obispo area please stop into our show room and I will be glad to give you a full tour and test ride in our CSX4000. I have been in the classic sports car business for over 27 years and I can assure you that you will recieve first class service from my company.
Sincerely,
Jason Len
XKs Motorsports
PS. If you have any questions I can answer feel free to call me during business hours at 800-444-5247

[Turk]

Mr. shrew,

I appreciate you recognizing your message as being "cryptic". Others have said so as well. I would not have been happy about having responded to you as harshly as I did, if you meant no harm.

If Malcom was a racist, shame on him also. I am not a supporter of racism, just a supporter of civility.

I am very happy that you served your country, so am I. There are other ways to serve it besides committing to the military needs of your country.I recognize it is not as honorable nowadays as it used to be. Where I come from, soldiers are always held in high reverence and admiration. I guess I am not politically all that correct myself.

I don't know that our exchange brought ANY dark cloud over our hobby. It may have brought some dark cloud over the two of us, but I think the passion for this car will outlive the both of us.

After 35 years, what other car is there that still looks good? There are many great old looking cars except they all look like "collectibles" and "antiques". This is a design that will be around for a long time.

I don't believe you have done anything to diminish the car. You may have said things that may have diminished how people perceive you, but that is about all. The Cobra is in NO jeopardy as a result of our slugfest.
I hope SAI is!

peace!

Turk

[Turk]

Dan Semko

At the time they demonstrated their ignorance with me, I had reason to wonder what they must be thinking. Now, with their most recent demonstration of their ignorance which entails going after FFR and maybe others,leaves no doubt in my mind that they ARE NOT THINKING.

I don't know who Wayne Stoker is, I suppose it is someone closely associated with the SAI. That company was an issue with me during my selection process. It no longer is. They helped me make my mind up. So in that regard, they are a very influential group in the Cobra Industry.

If they keep up the good work of chasing potential customers to the arms of their competitors, they are good for the likes of FFR, Everett Morrison, Unique, Superformance. Those boys should be sending them "Thank You" cards right and left.

With enemies like that who needs friends?

I honestly don't believe, all that is being done on behalf of Carroll Shelby is being done with his full knowledge. I think someone had him sign off on his rights and had him give a nod to the effect that it was ok to go protect his creations for his estate and for future.

Who knows, while Carroll is alive they may have thought he would make an impressive prop to be wheeled into a a courtroom as the feeble old man, whose ideas, creations are being counterfeited and stolen from him.

That would look very impressive indeed.
The same courtroom would not be as symphatatic, if all there were lawyers arguing on behalf of his estate. Not the same impact, not the same drama.

Oh well,

Gentlemen......!!!
Start your Corbas!!!!


Turk