Shelby AC Cobra

[brentfenimore]

All,

This post is not intended to insult or disrupt Cobra enthusiast or replica owners that visit the site but rather a brief explanation of why Shelby is offering multiple models of authentic (not original) 289 and 427 Shelby Cobra component vehicles.

Unlike any replica builder the Shelby Cobra component vehicle has drawn a premium price point since its conception back in 1996 in both composite and aluminum bodied configuration.

Our goal for 2004 was and is to produce composite bodied Cobra component vehicles at a price that is affordable to the masses by utilizing international resources while maintaining the build of the aluminum bodied (Kirkham supplied body & frame) Cobra component vehicles at a mid stream premium price point (“complete roller w/ paint” less engine and transmission at approx. $87,000).

The third option that has become available in the form of the aluminum bodied Shelby AC Cobra component vehicle has been in the works for several months. This product is not to be represented as an original Shelby AC Cobra but rather an authentic Cobra built by utilizing the resources of Shelby and AC. This model is being produced in limited quantity for customers that care to step up to the top level of the Cobra component vehicle market. As for the product being built from original tooling I am forced to clarify a well known fact in the UK in that multiple sets of original tooling were utilized by AC and their outside resources in order to produce the aluminum bodies back in the 60’s. AC UK has original sets of 289 (MKII) and 427 (MKIII) tooling at the Frimley facility and they are utilizing them for the production of the bodies on the above mentioned vehicles. The targeted MSRP on all models of these vehicles, less engine and transmission, is $145,000 FOB Las Vegas. Final pricing will be announced within the next three weeks but I must say that it looks like we will hit or be under our target at this time.

Shelby is not attempting to flood the market with multiple models or model numbers, we want to get authentic Cobras built to the original configuration in the hands of enthusiast and quite simply need to separate and call out the models for historic (e.g. SAAC Registry) and resale purposes period in order to be fair to all our customers.

Although we have run into setbacks on the production and delivery of the composite CSX4000 (designated as CSX4750 and higher) $40K units we are and will continue to use all resources at our disposal in order to deliver the vehicles to the quality demanded and as quickly as possible. If you are a customer with a deposit on one of our $40K units and wish to have your deposit refunded please contact me through e-mail so we can discuss the details. SAI has not and will not hold customers with deposits hostage simply because they were willing to step up and get in line for a product that has run into production delays.

R Brent Fenimore

[HIQ]

Class move Brent.

[computerworks]

Moderator Note.

Brent's post (here) is in the Manufacturer's Forum Area.

Please limit responses in this forum to specific questions or comments addressed to Brent about the topic.

Since the same issue is being covered in All Cobra Talk, in THIS THREAD ... go there for open discussions of this topic.

Thanks
Ron
ClubCobra Crowd Control

[CSX 4027]

Brent, I was curious as to what serial number designation you will assign the 289's and 427's made in England?. Will they have CSX 2000 and 3000 numbers?

Regarding your offer to refund the CAV car buyers.., are you;

1-Saying that it is indefinite as to when a buyer will receive a car?
2-Are you planning to re-Start the Las Vegas Glass Car production?
3-Is there a chance of a price increase before delivery of the $39.9 special if it goes out as a Las Vegas car?

BTW.. How much is the Shelby/Kirkham roller without paint?

[Tom Decker]

Brent, Considering the massive amounts of upgrades needed to justify 58,000, perhaps you could give us 3 examples. We truly need to know your definition/discription of a top level Cobra component vehicle. If your raising the bar, tell us, your market what to expect. I guess, until your reply the Kirkham with the old man's signature will be the standard.

[Excaliber]

Ron, if I should NOT respond here, I will gladly delete this post. But I do feel compelled to say:

In my opinion "pedigree" alone may justify the additional cost, even if it's less well built than a Kirkham.

Fact is, one started life in Poland and the other in England. In this case it's about "breeding". I don't know much about art but I have looked at some high dollar paintings and wondered WHY it cost so much! Must be the pedigree?

Ernie

[brentfenimore]

CSX 4027,

CSX1000 is the 427 (MKIII) which we will be offering in both S/C and Street Car form.

CSX7500 is the 289 (MKII) FIA and CSX8500 is the 289 (MKII) Street Car or Slab Side.

1- No it is not indefinate as to when the buyer will recieve his or her car.

2- We have never shut down the LV glass car production and as stated on several occassions we have increased the quantity on line to help supliment the production in South Africa.

3- The $39,995 introductory price was held until December at which time it went to standard MSRP of $42,500. It was well published that the $39.9K was introductory only and the increase would be to the $42.5K figure.

An aluminum bodied CSX4000 Shelby roller less paint runs approx. $74,000 pending options (most upgrade to the premium interior package, brushed closeout panels, racing harness, floor mats, etc. which brings the price up to $78 to 79K).

R Brent Fenimore

[brentfenimore]

Tom Decker,

Cost of goods sold is the most dominate factor in the mix however the breakout of the increase in those goods would be rather extensive so I will use the 3 point answer requested.

1. Hand formed aluminum body- No slam intended towards the Kirkham quality, it is a very nice body however it is a stamping and is mass produced. Have any of you out there ever placed a raw AC or Kimmins body next to a Kirkham, no comparison period. It takes approximately 1000 man hours to hand fabricate a Cobra body and you must therefore pay a premium for it.

2. Original Equipment- The Shelby AC vehicles will include original equipment such as brakes, seating, interior, rear diff and a 42 gallon fuel cell just to mention a few. All components used on these vehicles will be identified as Shelby AC components and will be vehicle specific in that they will carry CSX I.D. numbers for authentication purposes in the future.

3. Authenticity, exclusivity, resale value, pride of product heritage, bragging rights and top of the line Cobra Component Vehicle in the world.

We do not wish to sell thousands or even hundreds of these units, it is planned to be a premium product for the top end of the spectrum. Not a slam at any other component vehicle but it is as close as you can get to the originals and is an authentic COBRA.

R Brent Fenimore

[G.R.]

Brent --seriously ? antiquated brake technology--or am I wrong?

[Mark IV]

..I don't mean to flame anything posted here, but having been involved with "AC" since 1983 when Brain Angliss was building cars under license from AC, I will state catagoricly that it DOES NOT TAKE 1000 hours to build the body. Brian, at my home, after a couple of beers, stated that "the image of thousands of hours to 'hand form' the body is what we sell"

I have also been party to a review of labor times at AC in 1999 as involved the the AC MK III (427 Cobra) and AC MK IV and if they took 1000 hours, they lost a LOT of money!

Is the body labor intensive? ABSOLUTLY!!!! However back in the 60's AC had a subcontracter who delivered bodies at "an attractive price" which is why when original cars are restored, people are surprised to find a thick coating of filler used to bring some degree of uniformity to the bodies!!!

Mr. Fenimore, I would welcome your private e-mail to me so that I may expose you the joys that will come your way dealing with Mr. Lubinsky! As they say, been there , done that...have the empty bank account to prove it!

Rick

[CSX 4027]

Thank You for the response..

[brentfenimore]

Mark IV,

I disagree with your entire post but do not care to chuck rocks back and forth on the site. I have been involved in building a few aluminum cars on a hands on basis and contest your statements on labor hours required to produce the body then and now. I was not aware that any of the MKIV cars were aluminum bodied and would like to discuss your MKIV if it is. I will send an e-mail in the morning so we can discuss as you suggest.

R Brent Fenimore

[brentfenimore]

G.R.,

Antiquated brake system, yes it may be 1965 technology but so is the suspension, frame, body and all aspects of a true 427 or 289 configured Cobra. The point is that it costs more to cast, build or purchase original equipment on a limited production quantity then it is to use GM, Ford, BMW or modern aftermarket parts off the shelf.

R Brent Fenimore

[CSX 4027]

All of the Mk IV's were aluminum.

[Excaliber]

If were talking true to original specs, gotta be Girling.

,,,,,,, and no alloy engines either! Lets have the real deal!

Ernie

[brentfenimore]

Mark IV,

I was mistaken on the issue of the aluminum body on the MKIV, I was thinking of the CRS version of the MKIV which used composite material for the body. After a quick check of the logs it looks like several alum body MKIV cars were built by AC back in the mid to late 90's. This does not change my opinion of the labor hours and yes they lost a lot of money.

Ernie,

The brakes will be Girling on the CSX1000 however we do not provide the engine (owners pref) on component vehicles so it is a coin toss on how they will be finished out. If a steel block is used as apposed to an aluminum it will lower the final cost of the vehicle by $10K, I am in agreement that it should be steel if we had the choice in order to stay on the same page as the original '65.

R Brent Fenimore

[southernfriedcj]

Mr. Fenimore, is the intent of the new venture with AC to exactly duplicate the original 60's Cobras, with regaurd to materials and level of finnish? By this I mean the same type and size of frame tubing, and the same bodyshape, as two examples(as a reference, the Kirkham body is a different alloy and a thicker panel than the 60's CSX body).
I do not post these questions as a setup to attack the car, but I'm curious as to wether the car is going to be an exact copy or appear to be an exact copy, but with a stronger frame(I'm not saying one is needed), or a stronger body(you never know when Jamo will sit on your fender).

[Jamo]

Hey!

[What'saCobra?]

I might be a newbie poster, but if Fenimore doesn't know AC (Autocraft, owned by Angliss, located in same factory) didn't build hundreds(!) of alloy MKIV's, he is a newbie Cobraphile.

And $10K additional for an alloy block? Ya' gotta' be kidding! Whew!

[jamvan]

Brent:

How does this affect the few of us that have deposits with Shelby and are currently waiting for CSX alloy body 4000 series cars. What will we actually be getting and when?

This recent development concerns me greatly, especially since I have been speaking with my dealer on a weekly basis and this information was never conveyed to me (I just spoke with him this past Friday).

I appreciate you posting this "new" information here at Clubcobra, but I think you current customers would of prefered to hear it directly from Shelby before the entire world became aware.

You can be sure we will all be speaking on Monday to discuss the matter further.

jim