Shelby CSX4000 Aluminum vs. Kirkham

[rsimoes]

Without insulting anyone what are the advatanges of a Shelby vs a Kirkham and vice versa? (both in aluminum) I know they are both outstanding cars.

I'm strictly speaking about mechanically, fit and finish, closeness to orginal, etc.

This is what I have so far:

Points to Shelby:
It's a Shelby car that comes with a CSX s/n
Comes painted



Points for Kirkham:
Lighter weight by a couple hundred pounds


Drawbacks for Shelby:
Heavier


Drawbacks for Kirkham:
No paint (if you want a painted car as I do)


What am I missing?

[REAL 1]

Your missing figuring out whats important to you.

Shelby gives you the added panache' so to speak of owning a Shelby Cobra and driving a car that is considered by SAAC as a genuine Cobra and the only one that can legally and legitimately be referred to as a "Cobra".

Kirkham. Same car (with slight differences) without the above but less expensive.

Do you want the VW Torag or the Porsche Cayanne. Both same basic chasis and body with slight differences except price and status.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

[BMK]

Real 1

Don't know if I'd re badge a VW Torag to make a Porsche Cayanne now..

Bernie

[REAL 1]

Actually, I agree. I think the Torag looks nicer anyway.

[The Dreamer]

Shelby gives you the added panache' so to speak of owning a Shelby Cobra and driving a car that is considered by SAAC as a genuine Cobra and the only one that can legally and legitimately be referred to as a "Cobra".

Translation: I paid extra for a name (which is fine if that is what you want to spend your money on). How do you know?

Kirkham. Same car (with slight differences)

BTW, I would buy the Touareg (except for the Turbo which VW doesn't have), because the Cayenne is UGLY as *%^.

[HIQ]

Question: What is the price difference between a Kirkham and a Shelby if both are configured and built as a roller to the same level of detail?

[Anthony]

http://www.csxinfo.net/cgi-bin/ikonb...kirkham+shelby



SAI Manufacturing details!

[REAL 1]

Dreamer: People don't pay more for a name unless it has added value. In this case it clearly does. You may not want to pay for it but many do.

People pay for a Lexus over a Toyota or an Infiniti over a Nissan all day long.

An equivlent Shelby is also worth more than an equivilent Kirkham. You pay more in the beginning but the resale value is higher in the end too.

BTW I see you paid for a Shelby aluminum block. Aren't other aluminum blocks or other new blocks available for less?

[ENTDOC]

Keep in mind guys, that he said he was strictly referring to fit and finish,mechanics and adherance to original. He made no mention about the 'is it real' factor. That being said ,I think you would be hard pressed to see many differences in those.That is assuming you opt for the steel Kirkham chassis and original susp. pieces.Kirkham will have the car painted for you so that is not a factor really.Fit and finsh appears to be excellent in both and mechanically they are almost identical unless you go for the billet susp. The 'real'factor has been thrashed to death, and while make no mistake, it should be considered, it is not the topic of your question. chuck

[The Dreamer]

Chuck,

I understand that and agree the "real" thing has been beat to death, but by one member on a crusade to testify about the virtues on owning a Shelby brand reproduction over any other reproduction. Although, some may be willing to pay for a name, it is not universal. That is why this statement is not always true:

An equivlent Shelby is also worth more than an equivilent Kirkham. You pay more in the beginning but the resale value is higher in the end too.

And Real 1, please stop using your flawed analogies. Lexus and Infiniti offer different features not available on Toyotas and Nissans. Cayennes offer features Touaregs don't have. THAT is why people pay more for them. THAT is why I purchased a Shelby block. I have nothing against Shelby. I considered buying one of his glass cars. Shelby, the man, has had and is having a remarkable career. That doesn't mean I should lose my mind and pay a premium because he stamped his name on a Kirkham.

So, back to the original question and to clarify my comment. I think "mechanically, fit and finish, closeness to orginal" wise, one would be hard pressed to find a significant difference. The advantage lies in the price for the Kirkham and the name and CSX # for the Shelby.

[REAL 1]

Flawed analogies. Nah. Don't think so. Base Cayanne is a 6 cylinder. A Torag with a V8 can be bought for near the same $. Chasis are the same and bodies are similar. I'll be willing to bet fully loaded Toyota and Nissan models run about the same as the same near base vehicle in Lexus and Infiniti trim. And while the up scale product may offer some features the lower end name doesn't a large part of the price differential is based on the "name".

The fact is, a name can add value. Levis jeans cost more than the generic brand. A Harley soft tail costs more then a copy cat Jap cruiser. Both less expensive items are as good if not better then the named brand but people are willing to pay for the "status" of the name for many reasons. I'd be willing to bet you've made purchase decisions based on name in large or in part in the past. Sony vs. RCA etc..etc...

I don't beat the "real" thing issue to death. Normally, I don't even bring it up first. But if its relevant to the thread or discussion I raise it. Why, not. Tired of reading it? Pass over it.

I'm also not on any "crusade" to testify about the virtues of owning a Shelby. A crusade implies a desire to sway others. I couldn't care less whether others here agree or disagree or whether they buy a Shelby or not. The man who started this thread was looking for the differences justifying buying a CSX over a Kirkham. I laid them out. I didn't ask for your approval of what I said and in fact I said exactly what you ended up saying. Go back and read my first post.

Finally, I don't think one needs to lose one's mind to in order to pay a premium to buy a Shelby because he stamped his name on them. In fact, thats also exactly what he did in large part with the originals. Moreover, in case you haven't been keepin up with current events alot of guys, have by your definintion, been losing their minds lately as more and more guys have opted for a 4700 series CSX because when given the option of paying the same money for a glass Shelby Cobra or a replica Shelby Cobra their going with the Cobra rather then the replica of one. In fact despite a problem with production of the Shelby cars guys keep putting deposits on them and hanging in there waiting for delivery. Some have been waiting over a year now. I think they made a good choice for the money as opposed to lets say a non Shelby for the same money. Thats a no brainer in my book.

In the Cobra world the name Shelby makes all the difference in the world. No doubt about it. Whether you choose to pay for it is your decision or perhaps mistake.

Oh, yeah, find me a Kirkham and a similar aluminum Shelby where the Kirkham has a higher resale value. I'd love to see it.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Kirkham is an awesome car. The difference is in the name and some minor fabrication and suspension parts.

[Cal Metal]

Parse it all you want, but when people ask the universal question, I think it is safe to say that they are asking whether it is a CSX 2xxx or CSX 3xxx.

My money would be on the Kirkham. Outstanding reputation and character. The CSX 4xxx wouldn't mean a thing to me. Just ask the guy who tried to get his CSX 4xxx into the last photo shoot at SAAC with the CSX 2xxx/3xxx cars. He might as well have been driving a Dodge Neon. So much for the vaunted Registry endorsement.

[REAL 1]

To each his own.

A photo shoot limited to originals should be limited to originals. The guy was a putz for trying to get his car in the photo. Registry separates the series too. I think thats appropriate.

Maybe one day there will be a photo shoot limited to Continuation series Cobras at SAAC and some putz will try to get his original in the photo.

[rsimoes]

Okay, let me clarify a few things:

1) I didn't ask about the value of Carroll Shelby's signature, name plate or CSX # I understand it does add value to the car. You pay more and also sell it for more. I am taking that into consideration. But I didn't ask about it.

2) The car will be used for shows, weekend cruising, going to work on a nice day and a race track here and there. Not drag racing, but oval track or road race, but not often.

3) It will have an aluminum 427

4) I want it blue with double white stripes, because it's the way I always dreamed of it.

5) I posted the same post in two forums because I figured I would get Shelby loyalists at the Shelby forum and Kirkham loyalists at the Kirkham forum and I wasn't sure both groups would read both forums.

6) I am comparing them as machines, mechanically, fit and finish, performance (with identical engine and with the best each manufactorer has to offer in suspension, brakes, but with the 15 inch wheels, because once again, that's the look I want, like the original, part of that dream)

By the way do either of these have the option of coming with a rag top and side windows?

Please let me know if you need any further clarification.

Ps. I do plan on visiting both manufacturers before making the final decision.

I met Carroll Shelby at a show. . .

[REAL 1]

Mechanically, fit and finish they are both top notch.

Again. Those being equal what else is important to you?

[Thorin]

Thank you Evan

thorin

[Anthony]

rsimoes,

you said - 6) I am comparing them as machines, mechanically, fit and finish, performance (with identical engine and with the best each manufactorer has to offer in suspension, brakes, but with the 15 inch wheels, because once again, that's the look I want, like the original, part of that dream)



go to my last post and read through the links. If you want to talk about the cars, email me you're phone # and I'll give you a call sometime.

[FeWedge]

I was going for the same approach with my Kirkham. The Kirkham and Shelby car use a different suspension and brakes than the original cars. The Shelby suspension is more authentic but is not period correct and of course both us Wilwood brakes. I used the original style suspension and Girling brakes on mine. I am happy with the end result. If you want to go this route expect to spend an extra 15k on a Kirkham. Whichever car you get there is a fair amount of extra work and money you will need to supply to get it to be an authentic appearing Cobra.

Rob

[RedCSX1]

Rob, The CSX4000 series cars are running Baer brakes. Although you can get Girling style brakes.

Morgan

[Bill Kesner]

As far as brakes, it depends as to when you purchased your car. Baer was not an option a while back.

- Bill -