4000 series hub / upright / spidle options - Page 3

mickmate · #41 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:47 AM

Talking with 4000 owners I had heard of issues with some early front billet uprights with undersize bolts holding the upper ball joint bracket on giving problems. It was resolved with a beefier bracket and larger bolts I believe. Replacement single piece cast uprights are available.

mickmate · #42 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:50 AM

I was just looking at the only picture of it we've seen. You see they slotted that upper bracket for caster adjustment which is unnecessary as the lower arms are adjustable and usually the uppers are too.

shelby racer · #43 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

I'm sorry.

The only option I see is to put in a complete Kirkham front suspension (control arms, uprights, spindles, hubs, rotors, calipers, and assorted hardware). You should ask Amy B. if SAI won't split the cost with you. You took a huge screwing on your car -- plain and simple; and no doubt you bought that car based on the name. The least SAI can do is share the cost with you now so that you can fix it. I'm still not clear on one issue though, was this design some sort of one-off bastard design by SAI? Or was an entire group of cars saddled with this flaw?

I am begining to think that replacing everything with another supplier is the only real solution. I don't know if any one else has or will have the same problems, and I originally was investigating getting new hats and rotors so that the rotors could be easily serviced. Now I am just getting more and more uncomfortable with the design of the suspension. I have contacted SAI again and am hoping for better news.

shelby racer · #44 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

rDo you have any more pictures of the setup? Thanks Rick L.

here are more pictures - if you pop the cap off the nose of the knock off hub - it is hollow all the way to the other side

shelby racer · #45 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:47 PM

which are bolted to the back of the hub and the nuts for the bolts that hold the rotor to the back of the hat

767Jockey · #46 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelby racer

I am begining to think that replacing everything with another supplier is the only real solution. I don't know if any one else has or will have the same problems, and I originally was investigating getting new hats and rotors so that the rotors could be easily serviced. Now I am just getting more and more uncomfortable with the design of the suspension. I have contacted SAI again and am hoping for better news.

That's the whole point of what we're trying to tell you, SR - you don't NEED another supplier - Shelby no longer uses this screwed up system, they have a fine suspension right now, they are using it as we speak on cars they are building TODAY! It will fit right onto your car with no modifications at all, and your car will still be 100% Shelby, as it should be. In order to use these properly designed parts you will need to replace everything on both sides of the car in the front from the frame attach points outward. They are telling you that they have no parts to help you because they are trying to replace your terribly engineered parts with replacements that are exactly as you have now - terribly engineered. They don't want to give you a complete new front suspension because that costs significantly more, and it may very well open floodgates of complaints with guys who have the same bogus setup that you have. It may be true that they don't want to replace your entire front suspension, but the claim that they don't have parts that fit is laughable. Ask them if they are building any cars this week, and if so where the parts are coming from. When they answer tell them to pick up the phone and order more! They're pissing on your leg and telling you it's raining!

shelby racer · #47 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:49 PM

that holds the hub on

shelby racer · #48 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:51 PM

pretty much top to bottom

shelby racer · #49 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Ya think?

The other side is probably just an accident waiting to happen as well.

We just have not torn into the other side yet to see how many and to what degree.

shelby racer · #50 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

There has to be some product liability involved here beyond the warranty period. I would be very upset and you might consider consulting with an attorney.

I'm not a mechanical expert like Rick or Patrick, so there may be some simple and easy fix. I dunno. However, as a consumer who has spent a load of money on a product that may have been built with a dangerous design flaw and then have the manufacturer claim that there's no possibility for repair? Huh?

yeah - especially after only 497 miles - which have been relatively gentle - break in the motor - drive it on the free way miles. One of my concerns is that I am not the only one with these uprights. I have already spoken to some other people who had had issues - one of whom got their up rights replaced by SAI, but he says that his are different than the ones I have????

shelby racer · #51 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Oh, but first document the fact that SAI and the dealer refused or were unable to fix the problem. A few registered/return receipt or FedEx letters should do the trick. Start the documentation process, if you have not done so already.

I keep all the emails I get - more to keep things straight.

shelby racer · #52 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franklin

3) replace the entire front suspension with one from another vendor like Kirkham

I vote for this option...

or better yet, sell the SA and buy a Kirkham

After all that I have been through, I have considered selling the cobra. I bought it (and paid a premium) because it is a csx. I wonder if I got a red headed bastard step child. Unfortunately with he economy the way it is (and the fact that I would have to fix the car before I sold it and then disclose to the new owner that it has a presumed design flaw), I don't think it is gonna sell any time soon or for much.Maybe Kirkam would take it in on trade

shelby racer · #53 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

Unless they made some major revisions in this particular vehicle, I can't understand why they don't just take one of their off-the-shelf spindles and take care of this problem. Should be a bolt in proposition- of course then you would need a new alignment, etc... but at least this problem would be solved.

Hopefully, SAI will step up to the plate and get this done since this is really their mistake, and not really a warranty issue as much as a piss poor design and safety issue.

Hope you get it resolved with SAI quickly so you can enjoy the summer driving season.

Bob

Exactly what I was hoping for - to just send me new parts to take care of the problem. The say they don't have anything different available right now. It is funny that several people have suggested giving my car back to SAI and asking for a new roller and transfering the csx vin number and bascially starting fresh and letting them do what ever they want with the old roller (crush it, study it, re-vin it). Unfortunately It will still involve A LOT of labor to transfer the parts I have added to make it a car (assuming that they would fit on the new chassis - ever wonder why the header kit is a bunch of tubes that need to be cut / fit / welded?). Something tells me that they don't want to build me another car - even though that may have been the right thing to do when I had my first set of problems. Probably would have avoided a lot of what I have had to go through since.

shelby racer · #54 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernica

The guys at SAI are good folks. They should be able to help and walk you through this. They stand behind their product.

I agree 100% that the guys at SAI are great. I think I just got a lemon and it was worse than anyone wants to think or admit. The old SAI (company) had real issues, but the new SAI has been like a totally different company. I also just think that they don't know what to do with me and the car. Someone from the old company told me that the reason why I was having so many problems originally was because "it was a cobra and I just don't know what I am doing". He appologozed when I brought it back to Las Vegas and he saw it for himself.
The funniest thing is when I called Kirkham this week to see if they had parts or suggestions on how to fix my front end I was also told that "I didn't know what I was talking about" - but in this case it was a matter of lingo and calling the parts by the right name and defining what I meant when I talked about the front end being servicable. By the end of the conversation we were both exactly on the same page - and they had a solution - a whole new front end.

Power Surge · #55 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 09:29 PM

What exactly is the problem? Is is that the allen head bolts that are behind the rotor that bolt the two chunks of aluminum for the upright together are loose? If so, can't you get to them with a cut down allen wrench? If not, what about just drilling through the back of the block and tapping the other section and then putting a bolt in from behind with some loctite? As mentioned, you should be able to adjust the front end with the control arms.

As for the previous style (like my car), it's the same thing, just with an original style upright instead of the billet. And the original uprights are weak loads of crap.

shelby racer · #56 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Bernica, the owner has already spoken with SAI and their answer per the owner is noted above in quotes.

shelbyracer, I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can say that overall you've been very happy with SAI, when you have this HUGE problem and because it's out of warranty and SAI doesn't have a fix for this possible product defect, you're left trying to make lemonade from lemons. To bad the CA lemon law doesn't apply here, due to the nature of the beast, but personally, I would formally ask SAI to either fix it or replace it with a new roller. Just my humble $0.02.

As Rick said, you can't sell it unless you disclose the problem, and if you disclose the problem, then the value is greatly diminished.

Thanks Rod Knock - the old SAI was terrible (lots of good people - a few arrogant - "were are SHELBY" people and some back policies and situations. The new company has been (overall) very responsive and supportive with my MANY issues with the cobra (and the few I have had with my Shelby mustang - which Ford has given me hassles over). One of the things that I should disclose that will help make sense why I am not jumping on the law suit / go for blood mind set that I could very easily go for is that I have the worst luck with cars of any one alive. Every one has some bad luck, but I have been shown to have the worst of any one that anyone has ever met. It has made me more willing to work hard to to over come the difficulties. I was raging with the old company and poor service and attitude, but the company has changed, and is doing a waaaay better job. For the most part they lately have exceeded my expectations for service. I believe that they are still trying to help me. I am angry and frustrated, but yelling and throwing rocks is not going to help the situation right now. If they stop wanting to help me and want to play hard ball, which I do not think is in anyone's best interest, we can do that, but for now, they are people and I want to give them the chance to try and figure it out and come up with a solution. Do I think the "owe me" for all the time , inconvience, expense and frustration - absolutley, but I am really trying to just get my stuff fixed so that I can enjoy it and not fixate on things that may not be attainable. Maybe they can throw a teralinua or a kr or a supersnake or an fia car or maybe I can get them to buy me a Kirkham

shelby racer · #57 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

How could he possibly make it worse?

I would like to say that I am often misunderstood (which actually does happen frequently in the written word) but I do have a history of going 0-60 in 1 second flat. Not a very productive style. Can you force people to aquiesce through threat and intimidation - absolutely. Unfortunately you end up with few friends (who want to be around the drama) and you burn a lot of bridges. I have also found that sometimes the louder you say some thing - the less people hear - or the message (even if it is very reasonable) gets lost in the delivery.

shelby racer · #58 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

OK, here is what I don't understand. Unless I am way off base, Shelby did not change the chassis layout and front suspension pickup points. They essentially changed the A arm to spindle mounting, and the spindle / hub / caliper assembly. Is this correct? If so, where do they get off saying they don't have the parts to help you? All they have to do is go to their assembly line, take two complete front suspension assemblies and ship them to you. They should bolt right on to your frame attach points, and they should have the same geometry as what you have now. It's more expensive than they would like, but too bad. It isn't that they don't have the parts to help you - they just don't have the parts to help you as cheaply as they would like to help you. Push them.

Yes, my parts are defective, but the more people I talk with and the more I look at the parts, I think there is a flaw in the design. I was asking for a fix or new (different) parts that were not flawed. SAI says that they do not have anything different. I still need to talk to them about possible design problems since I am so far from being an engineer. If they don't have anything else to give me, I don't think I really want more of the same that will be prone to the same problems.

As far as pushing them, I have already had one mis-communication with Amy over this. I was in the asking for help phase. I am now moving into the gentle persuasion phase because it is so much easier to resolve things as friends rather than advesaries. If push comes to shove I am prepared to go there - I guess being unemployed has an advantage that it gives me LOTS of time to try and deal with this problem. Commiunication is true art form. If the other party perceives that it is being threatened, they naturally become defensive and the dialog becomes advesarial.

shelby racer · #59 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmate

Talking with 4000 owners I had heard of issues with some early front billet uprights with undersize bolts holding the upper ball joint bracket on giving problems. It was resolved with a beefier bracket and larger bolts I believe. Replacement single piece cast uprights are available.

I was told when I brought my car to Las Vegas that I had the original design that people had had problems with (eg failed) that I already knew about long before my frame was built. I assumed that since the problem had already been doccumented that they would not put them on my car (instead of dealing with it when they ran out of parts or if it became a problem). I was told that they had swapped them out fro the newer design that solved the issue. May be I did or maybe I didn't or maybe the ones I got were a interim solution that they thought / hoped would solve the problem (kind of like the hood scoops on the 07 / 08 Shelby GT mustangs that almost all have warped..... that after many tries, they still don't have a final solution for - although a warped hood scoop won't kill you or any one else). I don't know, I just want to stop having problems with the car and to be able to enjoy it. I really don't think that that is too much to ask.

shelby racer · #60 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmate

I was just looking at the only picture of it we've seen. You see they slotted that upper bracket for caster adjustment which is unnecessary as the lower arms are adjustable and usually the uppers are too.

Yes, they are slotted for caster - but in order to adjust them, you have to take the rotor off........... My $1,000 alignment - corner / cross weight, ride height setting was done with the control arms not the uprights. I don't even want to think about what the labor would cost to adjust the caster that way. Who designed these and why. 3000's didn't have them. The 4000s did not have them and I am finding out that not all the 4700s have them. Other companies don't make them this way......