4000 series hub / upright / spidle options - Page 2

patrickt · #21 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 05:46 AM

I'm sorry.

The only option I see is to put in a complete Kirkham front suspension (control arms, uprights, spindles, hubs, rotors, calipers, and assorted hardware). You should ask Amy B. if SAI won't split the cost with you. You took a huge screwing on your car -- plain and simple; and no doubt you bought that car based on the name. The least SAI can do is share the cost with you now so that you can fix it. I'm still not clear on one issue though, was this design some sort of one-off bastard design by SAI? Or was an entire group of cars saddled with this flaw?

RICK LAKE · #22 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 06:40 AM

shelby racer. Sorry for the problems you have with the car. Do you have any more pictures of the setup? I can answer the question about the rotor being bolted to the hub, If you loose a wheel at high speed the rotor will hold up the car as you come to a stop. If the rotor is not bolted to the hub you could loose the whole brake system if the rotor snaps off and takes the caliper with it . If you go to a good machine shop, have 4 bolts install the other way like Japanese cars. They are #3 philips screws. They also keep the assembly from spinning out of balance. If the rotor is a loose fix, you can get either a vibration in the car in your seat or in the steering. Have had this happen with welded wieghts falling off rotors. My other concern is that you have worn out a bearing assembly in 400 miles?? Something is not right here. If your mechanic said that there is play on one side and not the other, unless you potholed the car, the assembly was not setup as to their spec. What would fix some of the problem is going to a truck 4 wheel drive hub and changing the pins to the hub and not the wheel. As far as machining rotors that are a complete unit, there are ACCUTURN brake machines that do the resurfacing right on the car. The 1 ton truck have this. The machine centers on the rotor for a true cut to stop any pulsation on the brakes. The machine can't correct for bent or worn out hub bearings. Could we see a couple more pictures of the splindle setup? Show a shot with the caliper off looking at the back of the rotor attached to the hub please. Thanks Rick L.

patrickt · #23 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

My other concern is that you have worn out a bearing assembly in 400 miles?? Something is not right here.

Ya think?

The other side is probably just an accident waiting to happen as well.

RodKnock · #24 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 10:15 AM

There has to be some product liability involved here beyond the warranty period. I would be very upset and you might consider consulting with an attorney.

I'm not a mechanical expert like Rick or Patrick, so there may be some simple and easy fix. I dunno. However, as a consumer who has spent a load of money on a product that may have been built with a dangerous design flaw and then have the manufacturer claim that there's no possibility for repair? Huh?

patrickt · #25 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

There has to be some product liability involved here beyond the warranty period. I would be very upset and you might consider consulting with an attorney...

I think Jamo's the smartest lawyer on this forum.

RodKnock · #26 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 10:48 AM

The most cost effective approach may be to buy a complete setup from Kirkham, but that's coming from the peanut gallery (me). However, there are some smart, creative people/shops, both here on CC and out there in the SF Bay Area that could possibly help solve the problem and make the car safe which is the most important thing.

Then send the bill to SAI and the dealer and ask them nicely to pay it.

RodKnock · #27 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 10:53 AM

Oh, but first document the fact that SAI and the dealer refused or were unable to fix the problem. A few registered/return receipt or FedEx letters should do the trick. Start the documentation process, if you have not done so already.

franklin · #28 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 10:59 AM

3) replace the entire front suspension with one from another vendor like Kirkham

I vote for this option...

or better yet, sell the SA and buy a Kirkham

bret a ewing · #29 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 12:34 PM

Has this issue been corrected in the later CSX #'s? What number did the problem start and end?

RICK LAKE · #30 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 04:00 PM

Franklin You would sell a car to someone else with a POSSIBLE DEFECT and say nothing about it for the sale???

Changing the front end on one car to the next is not a 10 minute job. From the readings Kirkham front suspension doesn't have the same anything until you are at the frame. Not even sure if the A-Arms will bolt up between the 2. The next problem would be Camber, caster, toe, bump steering, and acherman turning radius. This is some of the problems with guys on this forum with bad handling cars. I have gone for a few rides in some cars that have been setup for handling and driving. They perform nothing like the street versions of most cobras. A cobra with 15" wheels to get max speed and turning out of, needs to be drifted into turns or oversteered. It's fun to do but the car is slowed from tire scrubbing. Cars with 17" and up tires are driving a whole different way. Point and drive, if you want to drift the car it's alot harder and IMO I have tryed and don't like the feeling of control. I agree with your other idea, If Shelby Racer want an aluminum body or even fiberglass, should have done more homework and may have ended up going with a Kirkham or one of the other brands and saved himself 5-10 grand for a name.

I have 3 parts from SAI and payed $25.00 more for a timing cover with CS on it and the Shelby blocks are about $500.00 for CSX058, and CSX 428 was over $1000.00 to match the number of my car from ERA. I know what I was doing and have no problem with this. I knew it going into the deals. I had nothing but great help from Mike Lefevers at that time. I think for SAI best interest they will resolve this problem without alot of extra activity.

Rick L.

Bernica · #31 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 04:27 PM

The guys at SAI are good folks. They should be able to help and walk you through this. They stand behind their product.

Three Peaks · #32 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 04:31 PM

Unless they made some major revisions in this particular vehicle, I can't understand why they don't just take one of their off-the-shelf spindles and take care of this problem. Should be a bolt in proposition- of course then you would need a new alignment, etc... but at least this problem would be solved.

Hopefully, SAI will step up to the plate and get this done since this is really their mistake, and not really a warranty issue as much as a piss poor design and safety issue.

Hope you get it resolved with SAI quickly so you can enjoy the summer driving season.

Bob

RodKnock · #33 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelby racer

mine is 4788 built by HST and when I talked to SAI they said that they currently did NOT have a fix or different parts to replace what I had that would solve the issue in the future. I still just don't get why they ever used this system in the fist place.

Bernica, the owner has already spoken with SAI and their answer per the owner is noted above in quotes.

shelbyracer, I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can say that overall you've been very happy with SAI, when you have this HUGE problem and because it's out of warranty and SAI doesn't have a fix for this possible product defect, you're left trying to make lemonade from lemons. To bad the CA lemon law doesn't apply here, due to the nature of the beast, but personally, I would formally ask SAI to either fix it or replace it with a new roller. Just my humble $0.02.

As Rick said, you can't sell it unless you disclose the problem, and if you disclose the problem, then the value is greatly diminished.

patrickt · #34 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Bernica, the owner has already spoken with SAI and their answer per the owner is noted above in quotes.

Ahh yes, the ol' "we like you, we're here for you, we understand, we feel for you, we want to help you, but we're NOT going to pay to fix it."

Bernica · #35 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think Jamo's the smartest lawyer on this forum.

I believe that JAMO would agree......

Document, document, document!

You and SAI may all have the best intentions, but as the saying goes:
"If it's not in writing, it didn't happen".
As much as you want to, changing running gear to another manufacturer without giving the original guys a chance to make it right, (in writing!!) will not fair well if things get bad. Either side can say that their parts are not approved and/or tested with the other product. Sorry, just the way of the world. A can of worms to be sure.
My 2 cents.
No, I am not a lawyer.

Three Peaks · #36 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernica

I believe that JAMO would agree......

Document, document, document!

You and SAI may all have the best intentions, but as the saying goes:
"If it's not in writing, it didn't happen".
As much as you want to, changing running gear to another manufacturer without giving the original guys a chance to make it right, (in writing!!) will not fair well if things get bad. Either side can say that their parts are not approved and/or tested with the other product. Sorry, just the way of the world. A can of worms to be sure.
My 2 cents.
No, I am not a lawyer.

How could he possibly make it worse?

patrickt · #37 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

How could he possibly make it worse?

If you try really hard, you can always make a bad situation worse.

767Jockey · #38 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 08:45 PM

OK, here is what I don't understand. Unless I am way off base, Shelby did not change the chassis layout and front suspension pickup points. They essentially changed the A arm to spindle mounting, and the spindle / hub / caliper assembly. Is this correct? If so, where do they get off saying they don't have the parts to help you? All they have to do is go to their assembly line, take two complete front suspension assemblies and ship them to you. They should bolt right on to your frame attach points, and they should have the same geometry as what you have now. It's more expensive than they would like, but too bad. It isn't that they don't have the parts to help you - they just don't have the parts to help you as cheaply as they would like to help you. Push them.

Three Peaks · #39 (**permalink**) 03-18-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

OK, here is what I don't understand. Unless I am way off base, Shelby did not change the chassis layout and front suspension pickup points. They essentially changed the A arm to spindle mounting, and the spindle / hub / caliper assembly. Is this correct? If so, where do they get off saying they don't have the parts to help you? All they have to do is go to their assembly line, take two complete front suspension assemblies and ship them to you. They should bolt right on to your frame attach points, and they should have the same geometry as what you have now. It's more expensive than they would like, but too bad. It isn't that they don't have the parts to help you - they just don't have the parts to help you as cheaply as they would like to help you. Push them.

What he said +1-

franklin · #40 (**permalink**) 03-19-2009, 08:08 AM

Hi Rick,
Nope, fix it first then sell it. Yes, I am well aware that everything would have to change back to the frame. That's the best way to fix it. I also am familiar with the differences in handling of 15" tire vs 17".
Have fun drifting,