4000 series hub / upright / spidle options

[RICK LAKE]

shelby racer John I as sure your guy can fix it with a little work and some new parts. IMO NO!!!! The stuff was loose to start. This is not your fault. If one side is in question what about the other? They may give you problem about the removal of the parts from the car. I hope you have a video of it. When you get in touch with them, Suggest them they send one of there tech to check the problem. With 400 miles there should be little damage to the parts depending on how much play was with the bearings, hub, and spindle. I have a chassic cobra manual and this set looks NOTHING like the one in the book. If you keep this car for a couple of years, and this problem happens or something breaks, I doubt that CSI is going to stand behind this problem and blame it on you because of mileage and time gone by. They will use the Abuse and Race Issues. We have this problem with ZO6 owners. You get 1 free clutch and rearend assembly. After that you are on your own. People come in with 3K miles and the rear tires are bald. I don't know what happened to the tires, Bad Alignment?? We check this first. Up in the frames where people don't know where to look, we fine a 1/2 pound of tire rubber. Gee how did this happen?? Rep from GM comes down and said ABUSE, you pay. End of story. $5,000 dollars later and the car is on the road. We get blowers and twin turbos on these cars and they come in with a bad clutch and still get one for free. GM will work with you to a point. Fight them now for the new parts. This battle is already started. Finish it one way or the other but get new parts for the right side at least. Just my 2 cents John. They know they have a problem. They are trying to get out from under it without fixing it. Rick L.

[Power Surge]

A few things I'd like to mention based on what we've discussed here....

Pre-4750 series cars were sold as component vehicles, not rolling chassis. The assembly of the cars were done by the Shelby dealer they were ordered from (or in some cases in Las Vegas if the car was bought direct). There was no factory production assembly line like with the cars now built at HST and Hi-Tech. So the "quality" of the build lies within which person built it.

With the 4750 series cars, the very first few were built in South Africa at CAV. In the transition from CAV to HST, some cars were built in Vegas by Shelby to fill the gap. After that, cars are now built by HST in Mexico and Hi-Tech in South Africa, assembly line style.

Now, regardless of where the car was assembled, NO car from any of those build sources is 100% ready to go after you drop in a drivetrain. The cars are "put together", but the person/company that does the final transformation into a running vehicle is supposed to go through the entire car, AND, they are supposed to have you bring the car back in for a 500 mile "retighten". I know that Billy at HRE does this, as do most other Shelby dealers.

I do agree that that is not the best designed upright solution, but it obviously works when adjusted and tightened properly, as you are not the only one with that setup. I would not be blaming Shelby themselves, as much as I'd be blaming whomever did the final assembly of the car, as it was THEIR responsibility for that aspect of the car to be tight (they should have done the final alignment on it after all).

Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

[mickmate]

Sounds like you're on the right track with hardware and loctiting it together. Consider pinning it also between the upper bracket and upright when you have it positioned.

[RICK LAKE]

Power Surge Sal I agree with some of your answers to the problem BUT, Johns car doesn't have 500 miles on it for the first service. After working in the car dealerships for 28+ years, new cars and well a car or truck I repair, ALL require a roadtest which I am not payed for when I repair a car for piece work. Average test between 5 -10 miles depending on the problem it came in for. As far as the Shelby name, they have the right to choose the dealers they want who will sell and assembly there cars. Here we are again with maybe a friday afternoon car or Monday morning car that was put together with a guy That could have been drunk or had a bad weekend, Comes in on Monday and drops the ball. I have seen guys fired for this. It's a safety issue. Most of the people that pay this car like yourself are White collar people that make well over 100K a year and may or maynot know anything about your car except where the gas goes in and when to change the oil. You may be able to build a car from scratch. In Johns case, he is not. Car has been in for more than 1 problem and been fixed more than once. If this guy beat the CRAP out of this car, I wouldn't even be writing this. Personally I don't like the CSI at all. This is a different problem I had and will not get into. People are buying a SPECIAL CAR and paying more for it because of the CSX# and who's company built it. I have been to other manufacture companies and they have assembly sheets on each windshield or body for assembly. This is to prevent this kind of problems with loose parts on the chassic. You finish you sign off. Some companies have a checker that checks the work. I guess where John's car was built this doesn't happen. John was not hurt with this car and there is no real damage but 2 or 3 times back for problems that he had NOTHING to do with..... I wonder how easy you would be if this happened to you? Me I would be on a plane and PI$$ed. The money tree in my back yard is long gone. Not even the roots are left.. Sorry, Shelbys name is on the car and that is who I would hold accountable for these problems. It's there dealerships. Maybe they need to do a little inspection of the Dealers and find out who is doing a great job and who is dropping the ball. Customers are the best info and company can listen to, to find out these things. As far as the splindle assemblys, they need some help. I looked at the original chassic book and the pictures of John's car look nothing like the OEM ones. Are yours the same as John's??? I hope not. We just have 2 different point of this problem and views. I did think that only the bodies and frames where built in South Africa? I have not kept up on where and who with them. Have a good evening Sal, going out for a drive?? Becareful, I heard there are BIG jackrabbits where you live. Rick L.

[patrickt]

I think Rick's right and, since I don't really have a "dog in this fight," I'd really like to hear the other side of the story. After hearing SR's side of the story I can't imagine why Amy and the Shelby folks wouldn't step in and fix this on their dime. I guess if they were concerned over similarly situated owners asking for the same fix -- but I don't know that. I can just imagine though if crap like this slipped out of the ERA or Kirkham shops they would have already fixed it before it made the CC headlines.

Afterthought -- Perhaps someone with Amy's email could drop her a note and ask her to at least address the issue on this thread.

[Got the Bug]

Rick Lake and Shelby Racer John,

Please put some paragraph breaks in your posts guys.

Ends up looking like a stream of consciousness...you're making people work to read it.

[767Jockey]

Risk's writing style is legendary on this forum - it's what makes Rick.........Rick!
If Rick wrote like the rest of us we wouldn't recognize him!

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Risk's writing style is legendary on this forum - it's what makes Rick.........Rick!
If Rick wrote like the rest of us we wouldn't recognize him!

I guess you gotta be known for something. Even if it looks like a Rorschach inkblot test.

[patrickt]

...approximately how many cars were built with this Rube Goldberg front end assembly?

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Power Surge Sal I agree with some of your answers to the problem BUT, Johns car doesn't have 500 miles on it for the first service. After working in the car dealerships for 28+ years, new cars and well a car or truck I repair, ALL require a roadtest which I am not payed for when I repair a car for piece work. Average test between 5 -10 miles depending on the problem it came in for. As far as the Shelby name, they have the right to choose the dealers they want who will sell and assembly there cars. Here we are again with maybe a friday afternoon car or Monday morning car that was put together with a guy That could have been drunk or had a bad weekend, Comes in on Monday and drops the ball. I have seen guys fired for this. It's a safety issue. Most of the people that pay this car like yourself are White collar people that make well over 100K a year and may or maynot know anything about your car except where the gas goes in and when to change the oil. You may be able to build a car from scratch. In Johns case, he is not. Car has been in for more than 1 problem and been fixed more than once. If this guy beat the CRAP out of this car, I wouldn't even be writing this. Personally I don't like the CSI at all. This is a different problem I had and will not get into. People are buying a SPECIAL CAR and paying more for it because of the CSX# and who's company built it. I have been to other manufacture companies and they have assembly sheets on each windshield or body for assembly. This is to prevent this kind of problems with loose parts on the chassic. You finish you sign off. Some companies have a checker that checks the work. I guess where John's car was built this doesn't happen. John was not hurt with this car and there is no real damage but 2 or 3 times back for problems that he had NOTHING to do with..... I wonder how easy you would be if this happened to you? Me I would be on a plane and PI$$ed. The money tree in my back yard is long gone. Not even the roots are left.. Sorry, Shelbys name is on the car and that is who I would hold accountable for these problems. It's there dealerships. Maybe they need to do a little inspection of the Dealers and find out who is doing a great job and who is dropping the ball. Customers are the best info and company can listen to, to find out these things. As far as the splindle assemblys, they need some help. I looked at the original chassic book and the pictures of John's car look nothing like the OEM ones. Are yours the same as John's??? I hope not. We just have 2 different point of this problem and views. I did think that only the bodies and frames where built in South Africa? I have not kept up on where and who with them. Have a good evening Sal, going out for a drive?? Becareful, I heard there are BIG jackrabbits where you live. Rick L.

I agree that it should not happen, especially on a car that costs so much. But the truth is, it DOES happen. Shelby, Kirkham, ERA, SPF... all the top name, top quality brands have their share of build and design issues. These are not DOT government regulated major manufacturer assembly line built cars with years of testing before their release and strict quality control. These are low production hand build component cars. Mistakes are made. Design flaws are found and fixed. Contrary to popular belief, John's upright setup was an "improvement" over the original setup which was prone to many issues. I agree it's not the smartest design, but the point it that it was the result of a known issue.

You ask me what if it were my car... I've had my share of problems with my own car. And keep in mind that I am the third owner, the car was already on the road previously. The problems I had stemmed from a combination of parts copied off original design, and how they were put on the car. Am I mad at Shelby for it? No. It's how the car was made and this is a copy of a 40 year old car. Am I mad at the dealer how built the car? Not mad, but a little dissapointed in the poor assembly issues. I have to deal with that and fix things as they come up.

If anyone thinks they are going to own a Cobra and it's going to be trouble free from day one, they are out of their mind.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

...when I talked to SAI they said that they currently did NOT have a fix or different parts to replace what I had that would solve the issue in the future.

PowerSurge, wouldn't you agree that the statement quoted above, if true, is totally unacceptable behavior by SAI?

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

A few things I'd like to mention based on what we've discussed here....

Now, regardless of where the car was assembled, NO car from any of those build sources is 100% ready to go after you drop in a drivetrain. The cars are "put together", but the person/company that does the final transformation into a running vehicle is supposed to go through the entire car, AND, they are supposed to have you bring the car back in for a 500 mile "retighten". I know that Billy at HRE does this, as do most other Shelby dealers.


I do agree that that is not the best designed upright solution, but it obviously works when adjusted and tightened properly, as you are not the only one with that setup. I would not be blaming Shelby themselves, as much as I'd be blaming whomever did the final assembly of the car, as it was THEIR responsibility for that aspect of the car to be tight (they should have done the final alignment on it after all).

Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

Based on what I was told by Shelby and my dealer, I was led to believe that the car would be ready with the addition of the drive train and associated parts. I was also told by my dealer when I questioned them as to what I was paying them for since they offered no support before or during the sale, they claimed that it was THEIR responsability to check the car from bumper to bumper when they got it from Las Vegas and before it was handed over to me. When I got the car, the first thing I saw was that the fuel filler hose was not connected and that the hose clamps were loose and just flopping around. When I called them (and also asked why not all the parts had been delivered and installed as promised), their attitude was "oh well" go ahead and sue us. Hmmm - lots of money time and aggrevation for stuff that seemed relatively minor. When I complained to Shelby - all I got from the company was that they are their biggest dealer and that the sell more cars for them than anyone else. Sorry - not anything we can do for you. When I brought my car ) at my time, expense and inconvience they did me a "favor" and fixed the frame and foot box and replaced the up rights (because they knew the ones on the car were defective - although I did not know that yet) and said that they had looked the car over and that I should not have any other problems. I am willing to work on the car and with the the company to resolve small issues, but I have had MULTIPLE major problems - and it keeps happening as new things show up on a car that has been back to vegas and checked. I know from private conversations that I am not they only one with significant issues - and some people have had to get even more help than I have. I there fore STRONGLY disagree that it was my responabaility to check everyone else's work - or the car was GROSSLY misrepresented. I am an average guy who can spin a wrench and cobras can be a little tricky, but I paid waaay more for this car because it was a csx and was represented in a manner contrary to what has turned out to be reality.


I again strongly disagree with your opinion (besides the facts that there are multiple people who had had major issues with their suspension - and many other parts of the car - including more than one suspension failure / breakage). Beakage even after it had been "fixed" by SAI. One of the things that I have discovered that is also really rubbing me the wrong way is that the nylock nut connecting the upright to the upper ball joint was crushed and the nylon retainer was exposed. I assume it was damaged when they removed the nut to replace the upright (by hammering on it...... which scares me that that is obviously what happened by looking at it) which is bad enough, but that any person working on a critical component on a car could reuse a damaged fastener that cost pennies is incomprehensible to me (although I get it that they were just lazy / sloppy). Says a lot about the quality and pride in work of who ever did it. "500 mile service" "alignment" - they could not even be bothered to make sure it was SAFE or deliver everything promised in the contract. I wonder why they are no longer a dealer.

[I}
Now what? I have been contacted by people who SAI has done better support than what I have received May be I should find out how they convinced SAI to step up to the plate? I have a $100,000 car that has had major problems and I don't trust. What is going to happen next? I can't sell it due to its problems. What happens when the next big defect rears its ugly head and I have 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 miles. I bought the car and hoped to never have to sell it. It has taken me so long to get it going mainly due to problems with the car and financial constraints. I maxed myself out financially (I don't know if other csx owners did not feel the burden of the cost of their car as much as I did) with this car. Now I am unemployed and it is broken again through another congenital birth defect.[i]

[cobra25]

I have to jump in here with Sal.
I have a newer CSX so I do not have that issue. But, I got to say compared to the originals these cars are leap years nicer.
We had an original 289 when I was growing up and this upright issue is nothing compared to the original AC fasteners constantly breaking off in the wrench, having to sleave the frame because the body kept breaking below the doors, etc.
It sounds like SAI have been pretty cool. SAI had a saying in the 60's, the warranty is 3ft or 3min which-ever comes first
I say fix it and talk to Amy and if she does not feel like its SAI's responsibilty then let it go and enjoy the car!
By the way, I am sure we could use another dog/cat vet on the south side of the bay.
Feel the burden of the price of this car??? Dude, if you only knew what I went through.......

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by cobra25

I say fix it and talk to Amy and if she does not feel like its SAI's responsibilty then let it go and enjoy the car!

Uhhh, I think not.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by patrickt

PowerSurge, wouldn't you agree that the statement quoted above, if true, is totally unacceptable behavior by SAI?

What's unacceptable about it? If that's the most recent design, then that's the answer I'd expect.

You think the OEMs jump at the first sign of design flaw? HELL NO. They deny the problem for a while, and then after enough public badgering and possible government involvement, they redesign the part and issue a TSB to the dealers about it.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think Rick's right and, since I don't really have a "dog in this fight," I'd really like to hear the other side of the story. After hearing SR's side of the story I can't imagine why Amy and the Shelby folks wouldn't step in and fix this on their dime. I guess if they were concerned over similarly situated owners asking for the same fix -- but I don't know that. I can just imagine though if crap like this slipped out of the ERA or Kirkham shops they would have already fixed it before it made the CC headlines.

Afterthought -- Perhaps someone with Amy's email could drop her a note and ask her to at least address the issue on this thread.

I would love to hear the SAI explanation. I asked them politely and gratefully for help. When I got conflicting information, I politely asked Amy to authorize release of parts or technology to help resolve my issue incase the people below her did not feel comfortable doing so and because I had been told in the past that what I got for support was more than the people I spoke with were actually authorized to do and flat out refused to do something that Amy later offered on her own to do for me (although it was kind of too late based on my understanding of the then current condition of my car - having been at SAI to be fixed and checked). Amy was insulted and said that my comment that they would not be willing to help me was uncalled for. I did not say to her that I did not think that SAI was unwilling to help me, I had said that there had been miscommunication / misunderstanding with what people felt they were authorized to do in the past versus what she had been willing to do for me later (which was the solution that I had wanted all along). Since I have gotten to know Amy she has shocked me multiple times with how helpful and responsive she was to the issues that I have had with my two Shelbys. Interestingly to me, I got to know her because she posted on another SAI thread here that I was "mistaken...?" regarding what I was publicly saying about what had been wrong with my car and why it had had to go back to Las Vegas at my time and expense and that they had done me a favor instead of that they had fixed some major docccumented problems with no further compensation for the frustration or inconvienece beyod replacing some parts that they knew were defective and installing some parts that I paid for. I also started this thread and made a point of trying to keep it non -confrontational. I am just trying to resolve some more major issues with this SAI product AFTER being told by SAI that there was nothing else that they could do. Since SAI had nothing further to offer I turned to others for help and support,

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Rick Lake and Shelby Racer John,

Please put some paragraph breaks in your posts guys.

Ends up looking like a stream of consciousness...you're making people work to read it.

Yeah that is the way I write , which is why I work on dogs and cats instead of being a writer.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by patrickt

...approximately how many cars were built with this Rube Goldberg front end assembly?

That is a great question that I would love to know. I have considered using my wonderful new SAAC registry to start trying to contact people. Like I said - I got the time.... and I am not going away or gonna roll over

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

Based on what I was told by Shelby and my dealer, I was led to believe that the car would be ready with the addition of the drive train and associated parts. I was also told by my dealer when I questioned them as to what I was paying them for since they offered no support before or during the sale, they claimed that it was THEIR responsability to check the car from bumper to bumper when they got it from Las Vegas and before it was handed over to me. When I got the car, the first thing I saw was that the fuel filler hose was not connected and that the hose clamps were loose and just flopping around. When I called them (and also asked why not all the parts had been delivered and installed as promised), their attitude was "oh well" go ahead and sue us. Hmmm - lots of money time and aggrevation for stuff that seemed relatively minor. When I complained to Shelby - all I got from the company was that they are their biggest dealer and that the sell more cars for them than anyone else. Sorry - not anything we can do for you. When I brought my car ) at my time, expense and inconvience they did me a "favor" and fixed the frame and foot box and replaced the up rights (because they knew the ones on the car were defective - although I did not know that yet) and said that they had looked the car over and that I should not have any other problems. I am willing to work on the car and with the the company to resolve small issues, but I have had MULTIPLE major problems - and it keeps happening as new things show up on a car that has been back to vegas and checked. I know from private conversations that I am not they only one with significant issues - and some people have had to get even more help than I have. I there fore STRONGLY disagree that it was my responabaility to check everyone else's work - or the car was GROSSLY misrepresented. I am an average guy who can spin a wrench and cobras can be a little tricky, but I paid waaay more for this car because it was a csx and was represented in a manner contrary to what has turned out to be reality.


I again strongly disagree with your opinion (besides the facts that there are multiple people who had had major issues with their suspension - and many other parts of the car - including more than one suspension failure / breakage). Beakage even after it had been "fixed" by SAI. One of the things that I have discovered that is also really rubbing me the wrong way is that the nylock nut connecting the upright to the upper ball joint was crushed and the nylon retainer was exposed. I assume it was damaged when they removed the nut to replace the upright (by hammering on it...... which scares me that that is obviously what happened by looking at it) which is bad enough, but that any person working on a critical component on a car could reuse a damaged fastener that cost pennies is incomprehensible to me (although I get it that they were just lazy / sloppy). Says a lot about the quality and pride in work of who ever did it. "500 mile service" "alignment" - they could not even be bothered to make sure it was SAFE or deliver everything promised in the contract. I wonder why they are no longer a dealer.

[I}
Now what? I have been contacted by people who SAI has done better support than what I have received May be I should find out how they convinced SAI to step up to the plate? I have a $100,000 car that has had major problems and I don't trust. What is going to happen next? I can't sell it due to its problems. What happens when the next big defect rears its ugly head and I have 1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 miles. I bought the car and hoped to never have to sell it. It has taken me so long to get it going mainly due to problems with the car and financial constraints. I maxed myself out financially (I don't know if other csx owners did not feel the burden of the cost of their car as much as I did) with this car. Now I am unemployed and it is broken again through another congenital birth defect.[i]

I never said it was your responsibility to check over the car. But part of my point was that you should expect problems with these cars, as they are far from bulletproof.

Also, I am in no way defending Shelby. Their customer service and support is legendary for being one of the worst in the biz. It's only until recent that they have started to swing things around. Notice I said started. That means there are still plenty of people on the short end of customer service, and unfortunately you are one of them.

From the sound of your story, your biggest beef is your dealer. It's unfortunate that they were so bad, and no longer even support the cars. I do agree that Shelby is partially responsible for making sure their dealers are top notch, but it also sounds to me like you might have been able to do more homework on who you were dealing with and what you were paying for before shelling out your hard earned dollars.

As for being an unemployed Cobra owner with no money, join the club. I've been there, and for all purposes I am still there, as I am now just barely paying my monthly bills as they come. If something broke on my Cobra right now, it would sit until I could afford to fix it.

Don't get me wrong John.... I am on your side. I want to see you in your car having fun. If you were local I'd be helping you with it. But the reality is that your dealer is gone and Shelby isn't going to stop what they are doing and fix your car for free.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

That is a great question that I would love to know. I have considered using my wonderful new SAAC registry to start trying to contact people. Like I said - I got the time.... and I am not going away or gonna roll over

Having a helping hand in collecting CSX4000 data and pics for the registry, I will take a look at the pics I have of various cars and see what I can come up with.