4000 series hub / upright / spidle options

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I agree that it should not happen, especially on a car that costs so much. But the truth is, it DOES happen. Shelby, Kirkham, ERA, SPF... all the top name, top quality brands have their share of build and design issues. These are not DOT government regulated major manufacturer assembly line built cars with years of testing before their release and strict quality control. These are low production hand build component cars. Mistakes are made. Design flaws are found and fixed. Contrary to popular belief, John's upright setup was an "improvement" over the original setup which was prone to many issues. I agree it's not the smartest design, but the point it that it was the result of a known issue.

You ask me what if it were my car... I've had my share of problems with my own car. And keep in mind that I am the third owner, the car was already on the road previously. The problems I had stemmed from a combination of parts copied off original design, and how they were put on the car. Am I mad at Shelby for it? No. It's how the car was made and this is a copy of a 40 year old car. Am I mad at the dealer how built the car? Not mad, but a little dissapointed in the poor assembly issues. I have to deal with that and fix things as they come up.

If anyone thinks they are going to own a Cobra and it's going to be trouble free from day one, they are out of their mind.

My issue was not that I have had problems with the car. A company is composed of people and people make mistakes and poor decisions (I think that is in the definition somewhere ).

My issues are with the number and severity of issues that this car has had (and please note that I purposely did not say issues that I have had with the car). I also have issues with the way these issues have been handled. The dealer screwed me (and Shelby didn't care). I greatly appreciate that some of the people at SAI were willing to stick their neck out and do me a favor and help to try and fix the car (which was ordered for a 427 and a top loader - an exotic combination for a cobra I know ) by cutting and rewelding the frame so that I would have some place to bolt the tranny (I even went out and bought the 5 speed that I was told that it had actually been built for as a solution to their screw up and it didn't fit either...), moving the motor mount and the passenger side foot box, replacing the defective uprights....., when I was told that the company's answer to my problems would be buy it back from me since they are now selling for 20-25k more and we have a waiting list a year long. I accept the limitations of the design and that a few fasteners may need to be retorqued or mild mods might have to be made, but there are MAJOR problems. Also, to imply that any of these things are my fault or responsability is ludacris.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by cobra25

I have to jump in here with Sal.
I have a newer CSX so I do not have that issue. But, I got to say compared to the originals these cars are leap years nicer.
We had an original 289 when I was growing up and this upright issue is nothing compared to the original AC fasteners constantly breaking off in the wrench, having to sleave the frame because the body kept breaking below the doors, etc.
It sounds like SAI have been pretty cool. SAI had a saying in the 60's, the warranty is 3ft or 3min which-ever comes first
I say fix it and talk to Amy and if she does not feel like its SAI's responsibilty then let it go and enjoy the car!
By the way, I am sure we could use another dog/cat vet on the south side of the bay.
Feel the burden of the price of this car??? Dude, if you only knew what I went through.......

Applied and worked for a day at a practice in Monterey only to be told at theend of the day " your a great vet, you did a great job, but we hired some one 3 days ago...)

Yeah, I tried that after the first round of screwed things were discovered on my car. How many rounds do I have to go through? The latest problem, they can not even blame on any one else since it is 100% SAI.

So, what you are saying is that I should be grateful since it is not more screwed up??? Just because my car is better than a 1960s car, I should be grateful that they are using modern fasteners and it doesn't matter that they did not torque them properly (even though they are inaccessable unless you take the front suspension apart) and that with less than 500 relatively gentle street miles they are backing out and could have killed me and others because things were worse in the 60s..? That I should be grateful that they are using modern technology. Is this the better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick philosophy or the "ido it because it feels so good when I stop phiosophy"?

Can you send me pictures of your suspension since you have an upgrade and do not have these problems? And if you do, and the parts are available, why , when I asked about such a thing, was I told that they did not exist?

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

What's unacceptable about it? If that's the most recent design, then that's the answer I'd expect.

You think the OEMs jump at the first sign of design flaw? HELL NO. They deny the problem for a while, and then after enough public badgering and possible government involvement, they redesign the part and issue a TSB to the dealers about it.

I have heard from others that there is a fix....... I didn't even get a "we can sell you the new parts...." which would still have been screwed up.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Having a helping hand in collecting CSX4000 data and pics for the registry, I will take a look at the pics I have of various cars and see what I can come up with.

Can you tell ANYthing about the suspension??

[shelby racer]

Why do some (although not all) think that additional expenses (such as taking the car back to SAI or R&Ring parts) are fairly my resposability?? Not inconsequential.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

Why do some (although not all) think that additional expenses (such as taking the car back to SAI or R&Ring parts) are fairly my resposability?? Not inconsequential.

Well, I could ask why you think you shouldn't pay for it? There is no warranty on the car from Shelby. It's no different than buying a car from a private owner. It's AS IS. Now, your dealer may give you some kind of warranty, but again, that's between you and your dealer, not Shelby. Shelby sells the car to the dealer, as is, with no warranty.

I agree it sucks you have problems with such low miles. I agree that Shelby could have taken better care of you and your car. But I also agree that Shelby either has the right to deny helping you since the car is sold as is, or they can go out of their way to help you. They are not obligated to help you. Help from them IS a favor, as ass-backwards as that sounds.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

Can you tell ANYthing about the suspension??

Unfortunately all the pics I have of 4750-up cars either show body/frame with no suspension, or all together with the wheels on. I could not find one pic that showed the suspension with the wheels off .

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I never said it was your responsibility to check over the car. But part of my point was that you should expect problems with these cars, as they are far from bulletproof.

From the sound of your story, your biggest beef is your dealer. It's unfortunate that they were so bad, and no longer even support the cars. I do agree that Shelby is partially responsible for making sure their dealers are top notch, but it also sounds to me like you might have been able to do more homework on who you were dealing with and what you were paying for before shelling out your hard earned dollars.

Don't get me wrong John.... I am on your side. I want to see you in your car having fun. If you were local I'd be helping you with it. But the reality is that your dealer is gone and Shelby isn't going to stop what they are doing and fix your car for free.

Thanks again for the support. I have had to work on cars a lot. As I said in one of my posts - those who know me all agree that I have the worst luck with cars. It is my lot in life and one of the reasons I have not gone ballastic over this car.

What further research do you think was required?? I spoke with Gary Patterson @ SAI and figured out exactly what I wanted before ever contacting XKs Unlimited. I told Gary who I was going through and was told that they were good (the biggest Shelby dealer in the US). I looked at their sales literature and read the contract. In the two years it took to build my car, they were never helpful (I always had to call SAI to find out what was going on with my car). They changed the terms of the contract when they delivered my car and didn't deliver on goods or services promised. None of these things could have been foretold from the sources I consulted. Even though I hate them, they are small peanuts relative to getting a car that had to have the frame rebuilt and a suspension that is failing. When the frame screw up was discovered, it cost me money to get it fixed even though it was still in warentee. I am not even complaining that my differential has leaked since the first time it turned a wheel and was told, get 300 miles on to see if the seals will re-swell. I have a new diff and am going to have to pay someone for an R&R.

[RedCSX1]

John,

Did you contact Tom like I recommended? If not then you need to. As far as taking the car to Vegas on your dime. It may be worth it to get it sorted out once and far all. Mine has been fine since the correction was made.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Well, I could ask why you think you shouldn't pay for it? There is no warranty on the car from Shelby. It's no different than buying a car from a private owner. It's AS IS. Now, your dealer may give you some kind of warranty, but again, that's between you and your dealer, not Shelby. Shelby sells the car to the dealer, as is, with no warranty.

I agree it sucks you have problems with such low miles. I agree that Shelby could have taken better care of you and your car. But I also agree that Shelby either has the right to deny helping you since the car is sold as is, or they can go out of their way to help you. They are not obligated to help you. Help from them IS a favor, as ass-backwards as that sounds.

MAYBE they don't offer a warranty any more, but I have a doccument that states "Shelby American warrants that the parts and components comprising The Shelby Cobra will be free from defect in material and workmanship for a period of six (6) months. This warranty will be limited to the repair and replacemnt of parts and components when there is show to be defect." Funny how it says NOTHING about "sold as is" ...SOL. I have it in writing. Where are you getting your information to tell me how it is? I also may not be a lawyer, but my understanding of the law is that companies have a much greater liability than individuals - but I could be wrong since I am not a proffesional or an expert.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Unfortunately all the pics I have of 4750-up cars either show body/frame with no suspension, or all together with the wheels on. I could not find one pic that showed the suspension with the wheels off .

Oh well, I would have been surpised if you could have found what we were looking for

[RodKnock]

While I've only out on 700 miles on my Kirkham, about the only thing that immediately comes to mind that I didn't like were the dash switches. I thought they were cheap. The fuel pump switch had to jiggled once or twice. Most owners can live with these small items that don't work or need upgrading and fix them. In my opinion, shelbyracer's problem goes well beyond the little things that need improvement with these cars. So, I disagree with Sal on this one. shelbyracer's car was delivered with a serious design defect. SAI should step up to the plate and fix the problem and not claim that there isn't a fix, because THERE IS. SAI is being ridiculous, assuming we have all or most of the facts.

However, shelbyracer also has to find the most cost effective approach too. You can sell it as is, you can pay the bill and fix the problem and not bother SAI, or you can pay the bill and go down the road of suing SAI.

Alternatively, there's the civil disobedience approach. I remember a very long time ago, when a homeowner in a new tract of homes had a problem (or problems) with a very large real estate developer/homebuilder. This homeowner, in their opinion, received no satisfaction from developer/home builder. So, instead of suing the home builder, the homeowner erected a 10-foot high yellow lemon and sat it right on their front lawn. Thus, any new/prospective homebuyer would see it as they passed through the subdivision. So, this is what you could do. Every car show, every major Cobra replica exhibit or event, anywhere you know where SAI will have a display, SAAC events, etc. you could be there with your car and a 10-foot tall yellow lemon. Tow it with you everywhere.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by RedCSX1

John,

Did you contact Tom like I recommended? If not then you need to. As far as taking the car to Vegas on your dime. It may be worth it to get it sorted out once and far all. Mine has been fine since the correction was made.

There were a series of Cobra's before Amy came on board @at Shelby that did have suspension issues. Mine was a an improperly machined bushing that eventually ate up the hub seal and bearing/race. My Cobra has the old style suspenion. All my dealing with Amy have been great.

There are some areas on these cars that are better left to experts to correct and they are not found at Shelby in many cases.

NOTE: Sal, you are not helping!

No, I still have not called Tom, but I hope to Monday or tuesday. I can not afford to do anything about it as far as replacing major parts of the suspension. I am trying to make due with what I have and make it safe until SAI steps up to the plate or I can afford to fix it myself.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

While I've only out on 700 miles on my Kirkham, about the only thing that immediately comes to mind that I didn't like were the dash switches. I thought they were cheap. The fuel pump switch had to jiggled once or twice. Most owners can live with these small items that don't work or need upgrading and fix them. In my opinion, shelbyracer's problem goes well beyond the little things that need improvement with these cars. So, I disagree with Sal on this one. shelbyracer's car was delivered with a serious design defect. SAI should step up to the plate and fix the problem and not claim that there isn't a fix, because THERE IS. SAI is being ridiculous, assuming we have all or most of the facts.

However, shelbyracer also has to find the most cost effective approach too. You can sell it as is, you can pay the bill and fix the problem and not bother SAI, or you can pay the bill and go down the road of suing SAI.

Alternatively, there's the civil disobedience approach. I remember a very long time ago, when a homeowner in a new tract of homes had a problem (or problems) with a very large real estate developer/homebuilder. This homeowner, in their opinion, received no satisfaction from developer/home builder. So, instead of suing the home builder, the homeowner erected a 10-foot high yellow lemon and sat it right on their front lawn. Thus, any new/prospective homebuyer would see it as they passed through the subdivision. So, this is what you could do. Every car show, every major Cobra replica exhibit or event, anywhere you know where SAI will have a display, SAAC events, etc. you could be there with your car and a 10-foot tall yellow lemon. Tow it with you everywhere.

Maybe I should become "lemon racer" One thing that surprises me is that Shelby never suggested that I talk with XKs unlimited when I had my first problems. I don't know if it was because they had realized that XKs was a steaming pile or if Xks was on its ay out or if they knew that XKs was not capable of fixing the problem?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

Maybe I should become "lemon racer" One thing that surprises me is that Shelby never suggested that I talk with XKs unlimited when I had my first problems. I don't know if it was because they had realized that XKs was a steaming pile or if Xks was on its ay out or if they knew that XKs was not capable of fixing the problem?

How about "LemonShelbyRacer"? Most companies do not want negative publicity. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. This is a last desperate move, but holy cow, I feel badly for you. Seriously, you can't get satisfaction, civil disobedience has worked for many causes throughout history.

[shelby racer]

Okay, we may be able to stop bashing SAI quite as much Some one was nice enough to take the time and send me images of the uprights from his car. The one on the left is the original design from CAV /HST. The one on the right is the upgrade, which is what I have on my car. If there is a newer one that solves the problem, I would love to see it.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

How about "LemonShelbyRacer"? Most companies do not want negative publicity. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. This is a last desperate move, but holy cow, I feel badly for you. Seriously, you can't get satisfaction, civil disobedience has worked for many causes throughout history.

How about lemon shelby since I don't want anyone to think that I race my shelby and get into any contentions that that is why it is hurt.

[shelby racer]

I am looking to replace the m10 x 1.5 metric cap / socket head fasteners
in the front suspension of my cobra. I think the old ones are stainless
and are of undeterminable grade. The best stainless ones I can find are
A4-80 which is apparently around grade 8. Does anyone have a source for
better ones? Do I need stainless fasteners? are there mil spec ones
that are batter that I can use? Thanks. John(;-)

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Well, I could ask why you think you shouldn't pay for it? There is no warranty on the car from Shelby. It's no different than buying a car from a private owner. It's AS IS.

Putting warranty issues aside, I believe there is an underlying moral obligation on SAI's part to fix SR's car. If I was building this car, and calling it a "real PatrickT Cobra," and using all new parts, and charging you a hundred grand or so for it, and it started coming apart in less than 400 miles, I would fix it. And you wouldn't have to ask me twice.

[RICK LAKE]

Got The BUG Sorry Doug for my writing. I missed alot of school on the important days when they where doing
paragraghs
for
proper
english
writing.
The important thing is you get the message.
Have a good one
Doug.
Thanks for the input, I'm going back to school at 50+ age
They call my age retreads. O-BOY.