Header issue with csx4788

[shelby racer]

Hi Gang,
I am trying to fitthe headers to my cobra. 7 of them fit okay and need minor manipulation. # 5 (front left / driver's side) will not touch the head and hits the steering shaft in a serious way. When I contacted Shelby, their response was that you just have to dent it. I am used to having to dmple and clearence production headers for street cars, but considering that these headers were built for this chassis and my 65 427 fe side oiler and that the amount of "dent" looks like a crush of upwards of 50%, it just does not sound reasonable. I would appreciate all input from 4000 series cobra owners with fe big blocks. Thanks.
John(;-)

[csx700?]

welcome to the SAI family.........

[csx4769]

John, This has been a problem for many of us. The answer lies in cutting the tube and routing it over the front of the steering shaft. The final product should not require any crimping of the header tube. It ends up looking very good , but , the steering shaft heats up all the way to the hub of the steering wheel. Thats not too bad on those really cold days because the hub can serve as a hand warmmer. If this does not help call Las Vegas and ask for Vince, he is the right guy to talk to. Good Luck! Randy Hermans

[kris-kincaid]

I have had to cut apart that tube and reweld it, but lately the headers I have been getting have fit nicely. Do you have the engine installed in the chassis level? Have you cut the tacks on the tube and tried to move it around on the flange?

Shelby does have a set of headers for an aluminum car that route that tube under the steering shaft. Maybe you can replace that one tube?

Shelby headers can be a nightmare.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by csx700?

welcome to the SAI family.........

No, I have already gotten the proper welcome considering that, after waiting 2 years with an incompetant dealer, I have had to move the motor mounts, the foot box and cut and reweld the tranny cross member on a car built for me for a 427 / top loader (hmmm kind of like they have been building them since the 60s).

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by csx4769

John, This has been a problem for many of us. The answer lies in cutting the tube and routing it over the front of the steering shaft. The final product should not require any crimping of the header tube. It ends up looking very good , but , the steering shaft heats up all the way to the hub of the steering wheel. Thats not too bad on those really cold days because the hub can serve as a hand warmmer. If this does not help call Las Vegas and ask for Vince, he is the right guy to talk to. Good Luck! Randy Hermans

Thanks Randy - I will look at doing that the next time I am at my shop. I have been talking with some one else in the back - everyone on the out side reccomends Vince, but he is very hard to get a hold of since he is so busy.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by kris-kincaid

I have had to cut apart that tube and reweld it, but lately the headers I have been getting have fit nicely. Do you have the engine installed in the chassis level? Have you cut the tacks on the tube and tried to move it around on the flange?

Shelby does have a set of headers for an aluminum car that route that tube under the steering shaft. Maybe you can replace that one tube?

Shelby headers can be a nightmare.

I was hoping they would just send me a new tube - not so much...
Shelby installed the motor for me so I am hoping it is done right. I have tried to manipulate the tube with out cutting it without any success. I am probably going to have to cut and reweld it...

[amy B]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

I was hoping they would just send me a new tube - not so much...
Shelby installed the motor for me so I am hoping it is done right. I have tried to manipulate the tube with out cutting it without any success. I am probably going to have to cut and reweld it...

Just for the record, the engine was installed by the customer, the car was brought to us for a foot box adjustment. We had to pull the engine to do this, we set the engine back in and did not hook it up.

Sorry guys, I need to keep this clear.


Amy

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by amy B

Just for the record, the engine was installed by the customer, the car was brought to us for a foot box adjustment. We had to pull the engine to do this, we set the engine back in and did not hook it up.

Sorry guys, I need to keep this clear.


Amy

I will private message you and be calling vegas tommorrow considering that you just publically called me a liar and I have photos and emails and winesses that substantiate what I have said.

[jdog]

jdog
P.S. I'll post a picture of what we had to do to get mine in.

[shelby racer]

Shelby is sending me a replacemnt #5 & #6 pipe (although I only had issues with #5) after I sent them images of what I had and explained that it would require "denting" my 2 inch primary collector for cylinder #5 about 3 inches to get it to mate to the # 5 exhaust port. The people I have met and talked with at Shelby in Vegas are great. If it were not for my contact at Shelby (who is waaaay over worked, but still finds time to talk to me on the phone and email me) I would have gone nuts with the wait and the problems I have experinced. In fact he keeps trying to keep things in perspective by telling me "smile - it will all be worth it in the end", which I over all agree with, but after waiting for 2 years and working on the car for a year now (with the help of some one who has been working on and racing hipo fords for over 30 years - infact just sold his 67 gt350 road race car that had sebring and other race history) it is beginning to feel more like hitting my self in the head with a hammer because that also feels good when it ends... Just to put the build time in perspective I am working on it in my spare time, but I do have experience buidling (welding , fabricating, building motors, body work and paint, brakes, ....) race cars and road racing on the west coast so I do know a little about turning wrenches. Like I said, the guys I have dealt with have been great, but I still have serious issues with my dealer and my overall experience.

[csx700?]

shelby racer
your dealer wouldn't happen to have the initials "NSC" or reside in socal would they? as for the dealings of "SAI" i can say i know what your feeling but be advised that you will get substantial flack from some people on this forum if you bash thier god.............we are currently putting together a psych group so that the people that have fallen victim to this kind of financial / mind rape can one day understand that it wasn't our fault that we were so naive and trusting.............I HEAR THE AIR RAID
SIRENS ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. how many ways can one install a engine in a chassis that has only (3) mounting points??

[shelby racer]

Oddly some one Private messaged me regarding a dealer in newport as soon as I stated that I had a problem with my dealer. I have NO experience with any dealer except for mine, but I am beginning to wonder if this is a common problem. I have heard really good things about the dealer in vegas (finishline??). Oddly, when I talked to Shelby about my dealer they said that they had not heard any complaints and that they are the biggest csx4000 dealer that they have. I am wondering if it is that no one is talking to Shelby or that the yare not hearing what is being said.
With regards to your other comment, it is one of the reasons I was so upset. I orderd my car for a top loader and 427 fe (basic - rock solid - I think they have done this before - absolutely NOTHING exotic) and it was still wrong. I had MANY conversations with Shelby about my problems and the attitude was we are trying to help you (but we really think you just don't know what you are doing - fair enough since they don't know me and most people know their wallet better than they know what end of the wrench to use). Finally they said bring it to us and we will look at it and try to help you figure out what is wrong - including whether it is you or the car. The boys in the shop were actually kind of shocked when they climbed on the trailer and looked at the car after I towed it there from northern California. They kind of looked at me and appologized. I am still finding things (some little some not so little) that I am working around, but the important thing was that the guys in the SHOP at Shelby stepped up to the plate and stood behind their product. I really don't think that the COMPANY would have approved of the shop helping a customer, and I pray to GOD that the people at the shop don't get into to trouble for doing what is right. It is like the series 1 failure as descibed in the book "snake bit" (?) and the main reason why Ford is in such trouble right now as descibed by Titus at this years norcal saac mini national convention. The car companies are being run by bean counters who don't get that they are not making toasters and making decsions that are too much based on the bottom line. I have talked many people who love the new mustnag until they see the "cheap" interior.

[shelby racer]

When I found out how busy she is, I have decided to not vigorously pursue communication, but I still stand behind everything I have said.

[csx4769]

Let me repeat Amy B"s words "Sorry Guys ,just need to keep things clear " ; I forgot that after the engine was placed in my car CSX 4769 by Vince at Shelby in Las Vegas ; it needed to be removed and have the foot boxes adjusted by Gary Davis in the shop. Seems after 19 builds that that little problem would have been solved, ( even by a bean counter ! ) Amy its the TONE, it seems, that can get any of us in trouble . You of all people should understand the level of frustration that is abounding in the current CSX 4750 plus program. Hand built cars, some hands in Las Vegas, some hands in Mexico, some hands in South Africa, some hands in prison and some hands in 50 states and shops everywhere . These people just wanting to live a dream that Carroll Shelby himself wants to be available to the common enthusiasts. How about the differantial oil leak / vent/ new design cover/ oil all over my new pride and joy problem ? Vince told me " Shelby Automobiles Inc. will have no problem making it right." Has that been solved , or , will (shelby racer) have to find out about that only after he drives the car for the first time? I would venture to say that anyone that can afford to build or have built a CSX #### toy is probably NOT stupid. But, they can be made to feel that way when reasonable questions are asked. Then told that they " they need to get a life" by an overworked bean counter. Not Amy B 's words , by the way. The oil leak-- " Well its not leaked for the past eight months sitting in the shop at Vegas." I was actually told this by someone that " does not want his words to be used against him". This while waiting for the replacement suspension parts. Duh, it only leaks when you drive it ! It cost me just less than a grand to fix it , this because the halfshafts and the rear end must be removed to have it fixed the way the competition racers do it. I asked to have bill sent to Shelby under warrenty and was told " Don't waist you time and effort." Question : haven't these rear ends been used and copied by Jag , Shelby, Kirkham , Hot Rodders , and the like for forty years??? ? ? Dirty laundry should be aired in private I agree, but, the owners forum is under construction. Amy , why don't you have a meeting of your customers at the next SAAC Does Vegas? Buy us a breakfast and have a civil exchange of ideas and brainstorm some solutions : have Carroll show up to use his incredible charisma to keep the dream alive and the tone of the meeting respectful and under control. Run this by Joe Jaccuzz The customer relations and communications guy that could have had me arrested for the way I treated him when I stormmed past him and thru the back door at the shop to see my yet unfinished car ( the second SAAC in Vegas in a row). REALLY GUYS I was a total a$$, and I wrote a hand written letter of apology in my Vegas room that weekend . I gave a copy to Gary Patterson, Gary Davis and handed the original to Mr.Jaccuzz and said " this is for you and it is not a summons" . My sence of humor didn't come thru, I guess, because I never heard from him again. Did I mention that he is the Vice President of Communications and Customer Relations ? I also asked that a copy be given to Amy B. I wonder if she ever got it, or may be thats why she avoided me for the rest of the weekend at SAAC 2006. Many of you will think that I am just a defective (Rear End ) just like in my car . But, many of you know I am telling the truth. Nobody could make this $hit up. Respectfully Yours in the Hobby Randy Hermans CSX 4769. Cell 805 816 2288

[bmalone]

Hi SR:

I thought I'd throw my two cents in. Here are the passenger and driver's side shots of my headers lined-up with the sidepipes.





That is my car, CSX4786.

I have been to the HST plant regularly to inspect the Cobras for Gary Davis at Shelby. Of course, the VIN tag, MSO and final inspection are performed at Las Vegas. I started back around 4778 and am still doing it. So, I have seen your car close-up many times--that would have been around September 2005.

I am sorry for all the trouble you have had. But, as you said, there are some real good people working at Shelby.

I started measuring the orientation of the foot boxes right around this time period after Gary told me to take a closer look. I think he said on the previous car he had noticed this. It is not something you would necessarily notice when the engine is missing. There is a fixture at the plant to place the box; if I remember, there was a personnel change and instead of orienting the foot box without the throttle bracket and bolt, the bracket and bolt were in place.

As for the trans mount, right before my car , it was changed to accept the Tremec by default. I know on my car I was concerned I get the 5-speed mount, since that is what I am using.

So, I hope your story has a happy ending and wish you the best getting your car on the road.

BTW, I have a bunch of photos of your car, as it was being built; I'd be happy to send them to you.

[kris-kincaid]

Bill, thats a pretty sweet setup!! You should load your gallery with some photos

[shelby racer]

Hey csx4769,
you sound like you have had it rough. I am VERY concerned that my differential is now going to have the same problem. I have this recurring night mare more things that should have been fixed will keep popping up. As I have said before, the comment given to me when I repicked my car up in vegas was that they had NEVER seen a car THIS badly screwed up. I towed my car home (thank God I own a 1 ton dually crew cab and a 2 axel trailer and am used to towing my road race mustang) thankful that I had gotten some help from some great guys, but still worried that the saga would continue. Well, it has and it has taken a while to convince someone that maybe the # 5 header pipe I got was not right and that it wasn't me - not that I am not "right" . I realize that most people only go to the trouble of saying anything when something is wrong, which is why I try and give feed back to people when some thing goes right or stands out. Unfortunately I don't think what I have been going through with my car is reasonable. Should I have had to bring my car back to vegas at my own expense to have the frame fixed / redone properly - absolutely not, but the alternative was to get my money back on the original purchase price (not to include any of the other expenses or large amount of labor I had incurred) was absolutely not acceptable. I am just trying to fulfil a dream and get my cobra running and on the road. Will I ever sell it - not if I can help it. They better dig a VERY big hole when I die, cause I am getting burried in it. Do I think the boys in the shop went up to and possible beyond what they could do for me under the corporate constraints - absolutely. It just never should have come to this in the first place. MIstakes happen, but when you are aware of them and allow them to continue, it does not speak well of you or your product. It is like the memo that leaked out of ford with the firestone tire problem that they were aware of it, but the accountants ran the numers and it was deemed cheaper to settle law suit than do a recall. As I stated, it just seems like a lot of peopel have had a lot of problems. I get that these are hand built toys, but .....

[shelby racer]

Hey Bill,
I would LOVE to get pitures and doccumentation of my car being built. I am a gashole also (thanks to Morgan). Your headers are VERY different from mine - especially the fact that you have 1 flange per side and every one else has 8 individual ones total. The "template" that Gary Davis made for the foot boxes was made after my car went back to vegas - because my car went back to vegas (or at least that is what he told me). I odered my car for a top loader and the tranny cross member would not fit a tremmac (whic is what I bought after I was told that that was what my car had been built for since I could not get the top loader that I already had bough t for the car to fit). The cross member had to be cut, altered and rewelded to get ANY tranny to fit. I definitely believe that there are MANY VERY good people at Shelby. It is just that some one need to take responsability for the product before it goes out the door.
John(;-)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

Your headers are VERY different from mine - especially the fact that you have 1 flange per side and every one else has 8 individual ones total.

That's because he is ruinning a 427 cammer SOHC engine, which has different exhaust port configuration than a normal FE.