CS2131 History?

[LMH]

Hey all
I'm looking at CS2131's history and finding confussion online. The original car was raced at Le Mans in 63 under #3. The car finished 7th overall. It had Dunlop 10-slot alloy wheels, which appear to be spline drive with an adapter.
Looked to be green but I can't quite I.D. the color.
I'm also finding a red car, with modified fenders similar to an FIA. Has the Le Mans top but the Dunlops are gone. I know CS2131 ended up with Willment and he seemed to like red. Am I seeing the same car only modified? Was the original wrecked and modified during repair? I've seen it with livery number 39PH, the British livery number of CS2131.
I also find confussion over CS2131 and CSX2131, the Willment coupe.

Anyone know the facts behind the original car?

Larry

[Trevor Legate]

All clear & fully documented (SAAC World Registry) Traceable provenance from new. Entered at Le Mans 1963 by Derek Hurlock (AC Cars Ltd), engine supplied by Shelby American, 7th overall, 1st GT over 4-litre class. Driven on the roads in them days so registered 39PH. Purchased by John Willment, repainted red/white stripes, rolled by Frank Gardner at the Nurburgring and hastily rebuilt (possibly on a new chassis, possibly not, no proof either way!!) at Thames Ditton and the wider rear arches were added with the usual cut-back 'FIA' doors. Great race history with Willment, driven mostly by Jack Sears.
Sold to G. Bagshaw, then to a couple more owners before Nigel Hulme carried out a proper resto in 1972-73. Owned by him for over 30 years before it changed hands. Had a huge rear smack on the Tour de France, repaired etc. Changed hands privately a couple of months back for mucho $$$$$$$$

[Nedsel]

I'm not clear on what "confussion" is. Maybe that's what you tell the priest in the box when you don't want him to know the truth?

[LMH]

I don't have a registry and probaly won't. I think the cost is way too much and won't pay it. That's why I posted the question here. "Confusion" online is I have read CS2131 and CSX2131 as being the same car only altered to a Daytona style body. I do wonder why the numeric part is the same though. I could not find why and when or if for that matter, 39PH ended up red with a different roadster body.
Thanks Trevor for the info.
Larry

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by LMH

I don't have a registry and probaly won't. I think the cost is way too much and won't pay it.

You could probably find a prior edition on eBay (e.g.1997) for about half the price. Most of cars' early history is pretty accurate in the older volume.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by LMH

I don't have a registry and probaly won't. I think the cost is way too much and won't pay it. That's why I posted the question here. "Confusion" online is I have read CS2131 and CSX2131 as being the same car only altered to a Daytona style body. I do wonder why the numeric part is the same though. I could not find why and when or if for that matter, 39PH ended up red with a different roadster body.
Thanks Trevor for the info.
Larry

The very short story is these are two different chassis. CS2131 (roadster) constructed by AC as their entry for the '63 LeMans. CSX2131 was a 'spare' unmarked chassis produced by AC and sold to Willment, who at the time, also owned the roadster CS2131. CSX2131 was constructed with a coupe body by Willment.

I'll let Trevor or Ned provide, or not, the longer story

[Trevor Legate]

I'm not a Registry salesman but in my humble opinion, it's remarkable value for money! But then I would say that...plus it offers further advantages since it can be used to prop doors open, squish huge spiders and save the cost of buying a stepladder. It's a bargain with a thousand uses!

The Willment (CSX2131) coupe was built on a spare un-numbered chassis, so Willment called it 2131 which offered certain tax and import advantages when shipping the car to overseas races....best to not ask about that ;-) It was registered 39PE but in South Africa was registered 39PH. Again, don't ask. He built it as Shelby was not prepared to sell a Daytona. By accident, the low roofline was more in keeping with Peter Brocks orginal idea.

Hope that's cleared up all kinds of confussion - no doubt a few owners confussed the history of their cars to Sir Ned whilst compling the registry ? :-) Should you need to confuss anything Ned, this is the forum to do it - all friends here and glad to help!!

[LMH]

Thanks guys! I appreciate it lots.

Excellent idea Ron. I'll do some searching.

Question about CS2131's color. Was the green a factory AC color?

Larry

[Nedsel]

Back in '63, that green was considered the AC Cars racing livery, and they called it AC Green.

[LMH]

"AC Green", thanks Ned.
Larry

[tnewland]

Actually the European racing organization back in the day required that racers utilize their respective country's racing colors, the Hurlock / AC entry was green for England and the Ed Hugus / United States entry was white / blue. It is believed that this is where the "Le Mans" stripes were actually derived from. If you look at most of the 1950s American entries from Cunningham, Hugus as well as others at Le Mans their cars were all white with blue stripes from bumper to bumper and they were usually two in parallel to each other.

[Trevor Legate]

The shade of green that AC preferred was similar to the Aston Martin race colo(u)r of the time - a shade of Moss Green. But maybe they had their own mix. They also painted their streamlined Le Mans Ace the same color. The 1/43 scale model of 39PH made by Spark (that sits beside my computer) reproduces the color pretty well (Spark Models)

[LMH]

I saw this online. The poster says the color on this replica of CS2131 is a little too "lime" in color as he remembers. Kind of hard to tell when comparing original photo's of the car, which there aren't many in color.
Larry

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by LMH

... a little too "lime" in color

"...a little too limey?" ...oh.my.

this is it.

[LMH]

Outstanding Ron, that's it! Yes, I would say the other is a bit too "limey"!
Larry

[Nedsel]

OK, let's just be careful here. Otherwise, it appears we may get into a discussion of Limey Greens. And we'd all turn to vegetables, and then there would be Mass Confussion.

[LMH]

How many Le Mans tops were there?
I was talking with Dr. Nagamatsu last year at Coronado and he told me his car is an original hard top car. I'm not sure what chassis number he has. That would make 3 with CS2131 and CSX2142 but I've read 5 in total. You guys know how many?
Larry

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by LMH

How many Le Mans tops were there?
You guys know how many?
Larry

I think there's a full article on Lemans tops in the new Registry.

[PDUB]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

OK, it appears we may get into a discussion of Limey Greens, then there would be Mass Confussion.

Wouldn't that would be moss confussion, Ned




_____________

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by PDUB

Wouldn't that would be moss confussion, Ned




_____________

Yes, I suppose it would. My mistake.

As for the hard top question, the original owner of Ernie's car did order a standard hard top for it. However, the aluminum Le Mans hard top 2203 wears today was acquired separately by Ernie many years later.