Dragonsnakes now??

[Rick Parker]

It was owned by a Costa Mesa guy whose name is the same as a car dealer but I don't know if he is the car dealer since he seems to have aged from the guy I knew with the same name back in the day.

Wallace in case you haven't looked in the mirror lately, we all have aged some since "Back In the day". We've all got a few bumps and dings.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by jsdonofrio

I have Cobra csx 3196. How can I find out if my car came with a side oiler engine, or a center oiler?

Jim, unless you have convincing evidence to the contrary, overwhelming odds are your car came with a 427 center oiler with 2x4 induction. With only maybe a couple of exceptions, virtually all 31XX cars were delivered with these engines. At about chassis number 3200 Shelby American switched to the 428 PI engines with 1x4 induction (a couple of 31XX cars were delivered with 428 engines as prototypes, which I recall were earlier 31XX chassis numbers). SA was building the cars in batches of 100, so parts contracts/orders were placed based on this plan and major changes tended to occur at the breakpoints 31XX to 32XX and 32XX to 33XX.

[rokndad]

saw a beat up Cobra today that was rumored to be a Dragonsnake

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coincidence! I was at the Cars & Coffee meet in Irvine this Saturday and I saw a ratty Cobra
black , lots of dings, that somebody said was a Dragonsnake once. It was a small block.
It was owned by a Costa Mesa guy whose name is the same as a car dealer but I don't know if he is the car dealer since he seems to have aged from the guy I knew with the same name back in the day.
I took one picture , front 3/4, so let me know if you want to trade it for
a pic of a genuine AC Cobra from the UK. I don't know if it came out yet so contact me in a couple weeks (yes, I still shoot film and want to finish the roll...) to see if the picture came out. Be prepared to see a ratty car.

I was there as well. The car is CSX 2075 (although I couldn't confirm since he had the bonnet closed). But he did have some pics which I perused through which showed the car in several states of dress, always black. He said it was the first 2000 series to get a 289. There were pictures of the car at various dragstrips, most of which were in the Oregon area. The car had a 1960's-ish Oregon license plate purported to be original according to the owner. It had a Hurst Shifter with a vintage (haven't seen one of these orginals in years) Hurst line lock button strapped to the shifter. Magnesium wheels, and big street tires. Interior appeared to be original well worn leather, with carpeting that had badly torn exposing the aluminum floorboards. Black rollbar, bumperettes front and back, with a grille. Early Cobra badge (not AC) on the front end. Said he bought it about a year ago. Claimed it was a "barn find", but research apparently showed it up for some kind of sale around 2005. The owner said it went through a complete body work/paint overhaul in around 1974.

[hurricaneharold]

Originally Posted by Historybuff

Coincidence! I was at the Cars & Coffee meet in Irvine this Saturday and I saw a ratty Cobra
black , lots of dings, that somebody said was a Dragonsnake once. It was a small block.
It was owned by a Costa Mesa guy whose name is the same as a car dealer but I don't know if he is the car dealer since he seems to have aged from the guy I knew with the same name back in the day.
I took one picture , front 3/4, so let me know if you want to trade it for
a pic of a genuine AC Cobra from the UK. I don't know if it came out yet so contact me in a couple weeks (yes, I still shoot film and want to finish the roll...) to see if the picture came out. Be prepared to see a ratty car.

I would be willing to trade the photo,if it comes out ok

[hurricaneharold]

Originally Posted by Historybuff

Coincidence! I was at the Cars & Coffee meet in Irvine this Saturday and I saw a ratty Cobra
black , lots of dings, that somebody said was a Dragonsnake once. It was a small block.
It was owned by a Costa Mesa guy whose name is the same as a car dealer but I don't know if he is the car dealer since he seems to have aged from the guy I knew with the same name back in the day.
I took one picture , front 3/4, so let me know if you want to trade it for
a pic of a genuine AC Cobra from the UK. I don't know if it came out yet so contact me in a couple weeks (yes, I still shoot film and want to finish the roll...) to see if the picture came out. Be prepared to see a ratty car.

I would be willing to trade the photo,if it comes out ok

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by rokndad

I was there as well. The car is CSX 2075

Car was never a "Dragonsnake," in the literal sense. It was, however a "snake that did some draggin' "

Sold as a street car and seriously drag-raced in its early life, according to the SAAC Registry.

[Richard8971]

I have a couple recent pics of the CSX 3198. One was right before my boss at the time sold it (that's me sitting next to it) and the other is of Shelby himself next to the car. I believe Sam Pat owned (and still does) the car when the pic was taken.

Cool car, lots of cool stories and I'm glad I was able to contribute a small part to it's history.

Don

[TboltNets]

Originally Posted by Hal Heindel

Here is one. I'll try to take a few more this weekend. Incidentally, the Marsh 1/43 model is of the second DS, but it was a rush to see anybody offer a model Dragonsnake! Now if I can get Exoto to do a 1/18 version . . .

Still looks good, just missing the "AIMER"'s name on the sides- saw my little buddy last Sunday

[Raaron]

Originally Posted by jsdonofrio

I have Cobra csx 3196. How can I find out if my car came with a side oiler engine, or a center oiler?

I owned 3196 for several years, and have pictures that you may want to document its restoration. Also, if you still own 3196 and want to sell it, I'd like to talk to you

[cobrajeff]

Here's what CSX 2075 looked like at C&C:



The wrinkles in the fenders and cracks in the paint do not show up in the picture. The car is ready for another restoration.
There was no ID tag on the footbox. I tried to get a pic of the VIN off the steering box mount, but it is not discernable in the pictures.

regards,

Jeff

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Richard8971

I have a couple recent pics of the CSX 3198. One was right before my boss at the time sold it (that's me sitting next to it) and the other is of Shelby himself next to the car. I believe Sam Pat owned (and still does) the car when the pic was taken.

Cool car, lots of cool stories and I'm glad I was able to contribute a small part to it's history.

Don

Attachment 14830

Attachment 14831

Don,
Do you know what the text on the back edge of the hardtop says? I'm guessing it says '1966 NHRA Winternationals Class Winner', but I'm working from blurry low res photos taken at an odd angle.

Thanks,
Steve

[cobrajeff]

Just says "National Record Holder".......



Jeff

[VRM]

Jeff,
Right above the rear window is some more text in white, but it is just a plain font.

Steve

[VRM]

Never mind about the rear roof text - I found it. Looks like I spend waaaay too much time reading blurry text in photos.

Steve

[CowtownCobra]

Found this pic of CSX 2093. Don't know if the description is correct.




This is Cobra chassis CSX 2093, then owned by Jim Costilow and driven by Bruce Larson (who later became the 1989 NHRA Funny Car World Champion). The car was later sold to Ed Hedrick who used it to win the 1966 World Championship. It is currently owned by former driver Bruce Larson.

[computerworks]

That is CSX2093... I think Larson sold the car a few years ago.
...independent DS.

From Mecum (2007)

1963 Costilow/Larson “DragonSnake”

CSX 2093 was the 93rd Cobra built and is one of only eight cars to receive the Shelby-developed DragonSnake package, designed to maximize drag racing performance. Depending on options, the package could swell to a whopping $8,990, a huge sum in 1960s-era dollars.

The Larson-piloted DragonSnake competed in NHRA’s A/SP, AA/SP, B/SP and C/SP classes and literally cleaned house. It set all new records in the ’65 season and won the NHRA Springnationals, Winternationals and U.S. Indy Nationals that year. The Cobra was so successful that it overshadowed Shelby’s factory-sponsored DragonSnake, much to the dismay of Mr. Shelby. Factory support for the privateer effort began to dry up as a result.

Later, with subsequent owner Ed Hedrick behind the wheel, CSX 2093 went on to win the ’66 Springnationals and U.S. Nationals. It also chalked up class wins at the 1967 Springnationals, Winternationals, U.S. Indy Nationals, as well as securing that year’s World Points Championship. It continued to set records for the rest of the ’67 season. All told, CSX 2093 held national titles in four separate classes.

The Costilow/Larson DragonSnake is in its as-raced condition, including the Weber-carbureted 289 Ford V-8 with sidemount headers, 4-speed transmission, removable hardtop and eye-grabbing magenta metalflake paint.

[THE UNDEFEATED]

As a Competitor against Gus during the 1966 season , I am proud to state that "I AM ONE OF THOSE 50% WHO PUT HIS BEAST ON THE TRAILER". I do believe I am one of a very small number to do this. I was part of the pit crew at the 1966 Spring Nationals at the second years competition at "Thunder Valley" better known then as Bristol Drag Way in Tennessee. I was with the D/Sp GT-350 "Snoopy" owned by Walter and Robert Walls from Worcester , Ma. We had a Motel off the beaten path and "DA Grump Jenkins" was tuning his Chevy Nova at 3:30 A.M. muck to everyone's displeasure. I grabbed a six pack and started talking with him and Ronny Sox who was awakened also. To make a long story short , Grump told me how to get 7,000 plus out of my 350 H.P. 327 in my new 1966 vet that was at home. Mr. Sox also contributed to my future success by explaining the value of grinding every other tooth off of the Brass Energiser Ring's in the Syncros so shifting could be accomplished without using the clutch much easier and reliably.
I took all that information back home with me along with some nice HO-3 Champion Spark Plugs that were given to me by the Champion sales Rep. Those plugs sold for $3.50 each back then , a steep price for an 18 year old who was working to pay for his $4,441.00 new Corvette. My Father had to pay for the insurance because Loyds of London were the only ones insuring a kid my age with a car like that.
I put 4:88 Gears in , M/T Headers (SHORT UNITS FOR NOVA) , Jacked the front with coil springs from an Impala , Rear Leaf spring up against the frame as close to dead X as possible , many other changes to Distributor and Holly Carb , along with the trans suggestions and shortening the throw on the shifter. M & H 15" X 29" X 8" "Wrinkle Walls" and took my baby to Lebanon Valley New York for it's first outing. Managed low 12's in D/Sp on at that time a 12:30 record. I managed to beat Shirly Muldowney in the finals for "Street Eliminator" , she was running her B/G dragster back then before she took over the "Bounty Huntress" from Kalitta Flying Services.

I noticed when I checked the car over at home that I was scraping the inside section of the wheel well in spite of the fact that the spring was jacked up to the frame as much as possible. I also noted the nice collection of brass in the bottom of the Muncie case from my "too slow shifting between gears". It took me a Month of constant work to adjust everything including redesign of the inner wheel well and realignment of the rear end.

In 1966 , Snoopy and I "TONKA TOY" were both running D/Sp and Gus was running A/Sp with # CXS3198 . We had a Gentleman's agreement to stay away from each other so we could all do our thing. The arrangement for Snoopy was to stay at Lebanon Valley N.Y. , I would go to the newest track in Epping New Hampshire (New England Drag Way) , and Gus would go to Connecticut Drag Way and other National Events that Harr Ford wanted him to participate in.

I went Undefeated from the second week in August (unofficial track running before grand opening in September 11) and continued beating up on everything that was thrown at me in Street Eliminator. Debb's Speed Shop C/Mp National Record Holder , The Hayseed running B or C/Ms National Record Holder , The "Paperboy" 1953 vet with a 427 Ford Side Oiler in A/Ms , Pete Tropiano in his A/G Anglia , and so many more I can't remember them. It got the point that "EVERYONE IN STREET ELIMINATOR" took up a colection to bring Gus and Harr Fords Cobra in just to knock me down. I could run at 11:78 all day long with no fatigue to the car. I could push it to 11:30 by changing the timing and tire pressure if needed. Gus was running some nice 10:20's and with my "Hole Shot" abilities I could have beaten him but it would be closer then I wanted. I pulled up to Gus in the staging lanes for the final time trial of the day and everyone was standing to watch this race because I was touted by the Announcer as the "King of The Hole Shots" and Gus was "The Monster" ( he did a cute trick by bringing the revs up to 4,500 and letting the clutch out at the max grab on tires without spinning so it would actually leap forward with all four tires off the ground). I plaid a sort of dirty trick on him "YOU BE THE JUDGE" . I knew the Akiles Heal of the car was the rear end "Stripping the Ring and Pinion" under extreme circumstances. So I pulled up to line first and put on both pre and staged lights (not a problem back then). Gus did as I expected , pulled right in behind me without taking the slack out of his drive train "as I had already done to mine". I realy streached my limit on the light and was surprised I did not turn on the red as I was intending to do just to make sure I was out in front. Well it worked , "he machined his rear end gears" and did not have enough time to replace the rear end. I went on to winn Street Eliminator till November 06 and went into Uncle Sam's Brotherhood on November 09 , 1966 till May 17 , 1970 . The car was given back to the Bank because on my Privates pay of $67.20 per Month I could not afford it. My Cousin Pulled the Motor and replaced it with his 300 H.P. 327 . I lost all interest in racing when I returned from the Service. I stayed like that for several years just trying to get my head on straight. Never went back , but proud to say I went "UNDEFEATED FOR 1966 IN STREET ELIMINATOR" taking down the baddest of the bad in those days. I feel real good about being one of the 50% that got by Gus and his Monster , "treachery works when pushed to the wall".

Originally Posted by computerworks

Here's the essence of Cal's prior post on the Harr Ford car...

"Ah...yes..CSX 3198. Purchased through Harr Motor Co. in Worcester, Mass. for their own use. Car came without color from AC and was later painted cranberry. With hard top and accessories the car ran over $10,000.

It had "shorty sidepipes", M & H slicks, 4.50 gears, Konis, etc.

Gus Zuidema, who was the Harr's performance service manager, drove the car in A/Sports/Modified with a 10.02 @ 146 mph.

A big controversy erupted between Carroll Shelby and Harr Ford when SAI would not back the 427 when it blew up in a subsequent race. Harr blamed SAI for not installing heavy duty connecting rods. Harr Ford must have had some clout as the controversy reached the office of Lee Iacocca. Harr threatened to sign off with his sales agreement with SAI. Larson Ford also said they would back Harr and also sign off.

It was later found out that Harr Ford had blown up a transmission and the engine had overwound. In a subsequent race, Zuidema missed three gears at the NHRA Winternationals and overwound the motor. Ford's rods were built for road racing and not drag racing.

Harr didn't care and said regardless of the incidents just mentioned, SAI was responsible for the motor. SAI agreed to pay $1,200 to Harr, although in the final analysis, Harr admitted they had been misinformed by their service people regarding the motor. As such, payment was held up and the funds were never sent to Harr Ford at that time; although, it was able to recoup the $1,200 because of the incentives SAI gave to Dragonsnakes that won national events.

Car was put for sale by Harr Ford in l966. Part of sales pitch was: Car hold both ends of National Record (A/SP, NHRA) Has won A/SP class everytime out. Won Street Eliminator 50% of total attempts.

Car has unusual history. Someone attempted to build a fake of it and peddle it in Japan. Based on a fiberglass kit car, no less. Supposedly rebuilt following a "wreck". "

[THE UNDEFEATED]

The pictures you have are of CSX3198 at the Museum and CSX2109 is also their , both from Harr Ford .

Steve #71 post.

[mr bruce]

any idea where the cobra Killin' Vette is today?

[lovehamr]

I love the story, even though a POS chebbie won!!