This could have been the 1965 Ford Cobra...

[cobrajeff]

Tom K -

The Cougar II sits on a transverse-leaf spring chassis. It also has an early Cobra telescoping steering column and wheel assy.

The Bordinat Cobra is built on a coil-spring Cobra chassis. I suspect it is CSX 3001, but as yet have not been able to confirm. This car was originally equipped with a 289 HiPo and a C4 automatic transmission.

regards,

cobrajeff

[misfit41]

I love the cougars lines,,I bet it handles like the Paul Newman/Andretti car though,cant recall what they called it now,,Henson ?? nah,,thats not right,,Tim

[speed220mph]

What a Cobra owner can do when it's snowing. Here's another one Shinoda did; a Gurney Weslake powered snow mobile. How does 150 mph top speed in the snow sound?

I think one of the fellows stading with Larry (at right) is Mickey Rupp.

[computerworks]

...had some correspondance with CC member Bill Wells.

His father-in-law was involved first-hand on the development of the Mustang I prototype...that preceded the X-cars.

He wrote a nice article for us, and I will post it with pictures.

[computerworks]

...article by Bill Wells

I have very fond and very personal memories of the 1962 Mustang I prototype. In fact, those memories date back to 1962/1963.

There were two Ford Vice Presidents that gave birth to that car and spearheaded its rather fast design, development and build : Gene Bordinat, VP of Styling and Herbert Misch, VP Engineering and Research. Many others were involved as well. Herb's son was one of my best friends and I have been married to his daughter for 38 years . We all went to High School together in a Detroit suburb.

I had the pleasure of being a passenger in that car in 1962/1963 time frame with Herb as the driver. I also watched the car do some exhibition laps at Waterford Hills Raceway , northwest of Detroit.





The car did exhibition laps at other tracks around the country as well. In between these displays, Herb had the car trailered to his home in the suburbs a couple of times so he could cruise the 'burbs in it, and of course, gave us rides. What a treat for me as a teenage car nut ! The first time, the car was delivered to his house in an enclosed trailer which had prancing Mustang horses painted on the side. A neighbor called the police to say " horses are being delivered and they are not allowed here ". Of course the police thought that was humorous to discover upon inspection that the assumed to be found Mustang horse was instead some strange looking car called a Mustang ! The car caused such a sensation on the local highways that Herb had to resort to driving the back residential roads due to a concern of causing accidents from onlooking drivers taking their eyes off the road and jockeying to get a better view of the car. It was a great looking car then, and it remains so today.



Interesting too that Ford at one time offered to GIVE him the car , and Herb said "NO, I look to the future and not the past". Now, would that be a treat to have tucked away at home today ?

There are many varied stories about the history of the car and involvement of various individuals. They are not all the same story, so much speculation by so many writers, not all factual. Urban legends I guess. Herb always laughed at the books or magazines with 1962 prototype stories that contained factual or historical errors , never bothering to correct them. For obvious reasons I have a collection of many Mustang history books that feature the prototype, as well as magazines and other items. The Randy Leffingwell authored Mustang history books have lengthy detailed stories about the 62 prototype with some great photos, as well as stories and pics of other concept cars. Many other Ford cars are coverd in detail as well.

One story goes that someone at Ford had ordered the car to be crushed , as was common then with many retired show/concept cars, but that someone had unknowingly hidden it away in a storage area instead. Then one day it was discovered and the decision was made to refurbish it and display it in the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.





The museum does not restore cars or other artifacts , they refurbish them so as to resemble what they were in a period of time after some use, not as if it was a brand new item. For years the car has been on display in the Henry Ford Museum, where it resides today, with a brief narrative and picture of Gene Bordinat and Herb Misch standing next to the car.



The picture is actually one that was part of the original media press review kit .



The 62 prototype was a project that Herb fondly recalled as the most fun project he did, and one of several he was most proud of. Herb remained a VP at Ford for over 25 years and was always a car nut . He was a hands on guy who appreciated the preservation of the past but always discounted it as only a step to the future. He always smiled at my Superformance and said nice car , and was always intriqued with the puttering I was always doing on it. But, whenever he saw my 1965 restored and modified Mustang convertible, he said 'that is still a good looking car after all these years'. Yes, he was fond of Mustangs.

As an aside, his son and I would put in requests for cars for weekends when we were home from college to cruise the infamous Woodward Avenue . Oh, the company test cars we played with on Woodward : Cobra 289 roadster, 65 GT350, 67 GT 500, 68 GTE Cougar with 427 , 62 Starliner with SOHC cammer, 63 Ford with 406 tri power, 427 Fairlane, Boss 302, Boss 351,Boss 429, Mach I...and the list went on. Strange how the cars went back on Mondays with an empty tank and less rubber on the rear tires . LOL.
Herb would bring home some experimental cars that we could not drive , with special id tags on the windshield which indicated EXP and NOT to be driven by unauthorized non-company folks: a turbine powered car, a gear shift in the center of the horn
ring/ push buttons, a no steering wheel car which had instead two hand grips ala today's joy stick. Several of these we were not allowed to even look under the hood. Yep, some wild stuff. Great memories even today.

Sadly, Herb passed away in June 2003 after a brief illness. He was 85 years old and healthy mentally and physically except for a 3 month period. He remained a car nut and stayed current on the auto industry trends and developments til the end. We saw Herb several times each day as he lived within one mile of us and he would stop by as he drove by. He always had some car topic to discuss. The 1962 Mustang prototype will remain a Ford legacy for many more years, and Herb and Gene will be part of that history..as well as all the others who were part of that project . For us, Herb was a great father, a great mentor, and a great friend who is sadly missed , but the great memories live on forever as they never die.

-- Bill.

[speed220mph]

Bill,

Neat information and pix.

Were you at Ford's in the mid-60's and familiar with some of the neat cars Product Planning nixed? Just wondering because in 1968, one of my projects in Styling's Advanced Engineering was called the "Pony Car" and maybe our paths crossed.

Using the English Escort platform, we designed a two-place sports car. It had a 90-inch wheelbase, fully independent suspension, a hatchback and powered by a BDA Cosworth. Unfortunately, I don't have any photos or renderings, but it was a sharp looking car. Product Planning shot down the project because, according to them, "there was no market for such a car." The 240Z appeared on the market shortly afterwards!

Waterford Hills! Here's a shot of me sitting in an M1B McLaren after winning one of the races. The driver is Don Eichstaedt. Car and engine were purchased from KarKraft at a "friendly" price to make up for O/T hours put in during GT40 MkIV project.

[speed220mph]

More photos:


One of my projects, testing the original MachII for torsional stiffness in the Ford's Building 4.


MachII race version in KarKraft shop, Dearborn.


Engine is Bud Moore built 302 with ZF transaxle. Legs belong to Australian Alan Moffat, test driver for MachII and TransAm driver.

[Tongue Pirate]

Cool car, but no cobra! That's for sure

[speed220mph]

Hyde<

Agreed, there's only one Cobra!

[Tom Kirkham]

Thank you for the pics!!!!!!

I feel a just little bit ungrateful for even asking but, do you have any more pictures of the Mach II?

Could I intice you to post some more pictures if I sent you a poster?

Thank you Ron, Jeff, Bill, and Tom.

I wish we could have more threads like this...

[speed220mph]

Tom:

Here's a view of the Mach 2 with the back opened ala the GT40. Notice Shinoda didn't use the Roman numberal II. The 2 distinguished the car that came out of his studio.



I'll post the front and rear views once I figure out why they won't load.

[Aussie Mike]

Has anyone else noticed the cool windscreen wiper set up on this thing?

Excellent thread guys!

Cheers

[decooney]

This is probably the coolest thread I've experienced on ClubCobra to date. Exciting to see these old concept cars and also how they look similar to other cars in certain ways; like Vettes, GT40s, McLaren i.e. Montage/Manta replica, etc. Those early Cougar concepts were sort of cool too. What a time to be living looking back and forward at cars to come.

[Mark IV]

..and I have corresponded regarding the Bordinat Cobra. I saw the car circa 1981 when it was being "hidden" in a Detroit area prototype shop (it was supposed to have been crushed, several Ford people "liberated" it and hid it for years). I was reviewing a project being done there for our company, walked around a pile of styrofoan blocks and....there it was!

I have pictures of it at that time that Jeff has seen. I will re-scan them and opost them (didital files on old, crashed hard drive )

The car was a coil spring setup. To my quick look-see it looked like a Mk III type setup on a MK II frame but I could be wrong. At the time several otems had been "borrowed" off the car such as the wood steering wheel and other small items.

Still a really pretty car in the flesh, pictures do not do the proportion and flow justice.

Rick

[Bill Wells]

Computerworks/Ron...a BIG thanks in assisting me in posting my pictures and 62 Prototype story...Bill Gates is not worried about me as competition, I still get confused using a vcr remote !

Speed220mph..... yes and no. I was at Ford from 68 til my 98 retirement, but in the marketing/sales/production planning area, with 18 of those years living in 6 different USA locations. My product development involvement was 'some but not much'. If you were around SCCA/MGCC/PCA in the 60s or a Waterford Hills regular then, my father (Bill) raced a series of Porsche 356s there and was on the National SCCA Rallye tour as well as local gymkhanas, more Rallyes than racing . He was also on the Chev Corvair International Rallye factory team in 62/63. He stored the 4 Zora Arkus Duntov prepared factory cars in back of our house. I was able to excercise them on Woodward Ave on occasion.

Those were the days. I cruise Woodward every day now, but it is not the same as the days of factory racers running the streets and more lax patrolling by the gendarmes as it was in the 60s.

Bill.

[speed220mph]

Bill:

Real small world. I was in Chassis Engineering, KarKraft and Advanced Engineering in styling. I also sarted a company known as AVC Engineering which became Protofab, so I was into the TransAm series. We did Rousch's first T/A cars. One driver was Willy T. Joe Ruttman drove many of our cars. Also built one of John Greenwoods killer Corvettes.

356 Porsches, eh? Probably did cross paths with your father when running the McLaren. A good friend, Garrett Van Camp, won the SCCA runoffs many times in his 356. You may know him. Also helped Bob Riley with his FV, FF and SuperVees.

Never did do the Woodward scene, but a friend did. Bill Coones in his grubby green '64 Comet with a 289 upped to 350 cubes terrorized the Vettes back in the late '60s. As for me, I confined most of my personal racing activity to the desert Southwest and the Bonneville Salt Flats.

[Tom Kirkham]

In dusting off my library collection I found in Petersen’s Complete Ford Book, 3rd edition an article titled “Ford Sportscar Prototypes”

Here are some excerpts…

In the article it talks about the “XD Cobra also called the Bordinat Cobra… A hardtop version was named the Cougar II.”

“The basic frame consisted of two longitudinal steel tubes 4 ins. in diameter, with one 3 in and three 4 in. crossmembers. A muffler ran through each side rail.

Cougar II passenger, GT car created in 1968 …
Created in Ford’s Corporate Projects Design Office, the car was 167.8 ins. Long and had a 90 in wheelbase. Overall height was 47.8 ins. Overall widthe 66.6 ins., tread width, 50.5 ins. In front and 52 ins. In the rear.

Mach 2
Designed to take Ford’s high-performance289 cid family of engines, the Mach 2 weighed approximately 2850 lbs. in road trim and would be substantially lighter in race form The car was only 47 ins high.
The underbody of the Mach 2 was semi-monocoque steel construction. The body was fiberglass.
… The clutch, brake and accelerator pedals were adjustable to accommodate individual drivers. These features were introduced on the Mustang I sports car in 1962.

Mach 2C
Once the late Bruce McLaren decide he wanted a street car. But McLaren, as builder of the Group 7 cars that were dominating the Can-Am series, wanted a street car that could perform as well as a Can-Am car. What did it look like? Well, it looked like the Ford Mach 2C.
What did the Ford Mach2C look like? It’s kind of hard to find out from ford. They officially only admit to the Mach 2 which was built on a Mustang floor pan and had a small-block engine.
The Mach 2C was a much bigger car, with a wheelbase of 102 ins., an overall length of 178 ins. and a total height of under 4 ft.
The engine called for in the design presentation, made in 1969, was the massive Ford 429-Ford’s answer to the Chevrolet 427. The transaxle was not to be some exotic piece of unworkable trash form abroad but made in the good old USA along with all the other bits and pieces.

[speed220mph]

Tom:

My memory cells are churning.
The Cougar II sounds a lot like the Pony Car. Did they give any indication of the engine used? Ours was BDA Cosworth powered.

The Mach II race version was super light. How does 1,750 pounds sound? It was a rocket, what with the power of Bud Moore's 302 and the light weight. The body was so thin the paint couldn't be rubbed out!

As for construction, The Mach 2was semi-moncoque steel for the simple reason that we started with the Mustang sctructure. Used the complete unit body, but cut out the rear section between the "frame rails" to provide room for the engine and transaxle. A bulkhead was added behind the pssenger's comparment along with additional panel and braces. A trunk floor was installed in the original engine bay.

I'm sure the Mach 2C you're referring to is the Shinoda car. I don't think a car was ever built, so it was a dream on paper. That was about the time the "Duece" (Henry Ford II) pulled the plug on all racing programs.

The Duece was so mad about some financial irregularities in the racing program that he had all racing activities stopped immediately. Racing engines, including cammer 427s, were destroyed with sledge hammers and tossed into dumpsters! Black day at Ford.

Be glad for what's going on now. Who would've believe a new "GT40" aka Ford Gt and a new Cobra . . . maybe.

[Tom Kirkham]

Yes the Mach 2C is the Shinoda car.

The Cougar II is the same Cougar II car that is in Computer Works first post in this thread.

Other cars in the article were the Bearcat, Allegro II (much better looking than the Allegro IMHO) , Mustang I and Mustang II.

[Mark IV]

that the Mach 2 used a Mustang convertible platform (stronger with the extra inner rocker panels and torque boxes and had the fuel tank in the tranny hump that was now empty.

Lot's of neat stuff in Ford advanced in the mid to late 60's. I saw some cool stuff in the early 80's when I knew Bill Stuef at Ford. He went on to do the aluminum Taurus and some other neat stuff there. I would go to the "scientific research building" and once Bill got me inside I was able to wander and see a LOT of stuff I should not have been allowed near!

Rick