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 1Likes
06-10-2004, 11:14 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Cobra Make, Engine: Early 427 car
Posts: 589
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Not Ranked
rules
I've heard from several guys that either raced the cars back then or have just been into them since the 60's that there were many issues with the SCCA in what they allowed the Cobras to run. Supposedly at some point there were problems with 9 1/2" wheels, dry sump, aluminum heads, etc. I seem to recall in large part hearing that the Corvette guys were *****ing and pressured the SCCA to recind some of the items, but in the 70's I think they allowed much of it back to help keep the car competitive (like NASCAR monkeys with the rules all the time)
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06-10-2004, 07:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Outside Miami,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: Several
Posts: 949
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Not Ranked
Please, fellows, post what you are reading together and we can all kibitz.
There is certainly no way that 100 Cobras had aly heads or 100 dry-sumps, but maybe the all didn't have to have the option? I only saw two dry-sumps in the day, but there must hav been more than that. But, no humdred.
Meanwhile, it seems particularly unlikely that the 427 was homoed for GT or Touring. It so, they would be running in FIA today.
Something's a bit at variance to what my lying eyes tell me.
__________________
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington
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06-14-2004, 10:42 AM
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CC Member / Sponsor
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Provo,
UT
Cobra Make, Engine: Daytona Coupe
Posts: 1,359
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Not Ranked
I just got off the phone with ACCUS. Their phone number is 847-272-0090. I talked with Anne. The 427 Cobra homolagation papers were under file 220, and the 289 papers were under file 150/1. I had her send me paperwork for both cars. I believe she said the paperwork was dated 1968. She also said that their may be further updates but that I would need to find the file numbers. I will send off to the FIA and see what I can find out...
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06-27-2004, 02:18 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cape Town, South Africa/Mainz, Germany,
Posts: 1,601
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good morning,
sorry if I act like a kid who did not listen to what has been said, but I couldn't read all of it with my lousy 33k modem, but:
as far as I know only cars built in 1965 or older can race in historic FIA events in europe.
would a replica still be legal?
dom, capw town
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If I don't respond anymore, that's because I can't log in
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06-27-2004, 02:30 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Anglesey,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: Hawk 289FiA with Le Mans hardtop. AC CS(X)2131,289 (my father owned it from `67-`73)
Posts: 1,023
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Not Ranked
Hi Dom. A basic recap. The new FiA ruling will allow 'original spec' vehicles to be raced,regardless of age, at organisers`/other competitiors` discretion, and a separate 'pedigree' form will verify the authenticity of original cars. It`s worth reading through the whole lot, even if it is slow for you, (My home dial-up isn`t much better than that!!!)
regards, Nik.
and here`s the link to the FiA ruling
__________________
"If I plagiarize, it's only because I like someone else's idea better than mine and I want credit for it."- Anna Sato-Williams.
"If I plagiarize, it's only because I like someone else's idea better than mine and I want credit for it."- nikbj68
Last edited by nikbj68; 06-27-2004 at 02:52 AM..
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06-28-2004, 08:37 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cape Town, South Africa/Mainz, Germany,
Posts: 1,601
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Very interesting,
so we will soon see Kirkham 427s racing in Europe with cast iron engine and aluminum cylinder heads?
I know a good driver in Germany, he’s in his 60s and currently races his M8F on the track and his Group-C to go shopping.
He would be a period correct driver in a correct replica. J
Cheers,
dominik,
still in cape town and waiting for Kirkhams to sell them here!
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If I don't respond anymore, that's because I can't log in
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03-18-2005, 09:23 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 3
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Not Ranked
The 427 Cobra was indeed homologated on 1/1/66 after being turned down in late 1965 due to to a lack of cars built. The FIA homologation number is "220" in group 4, manufacturer: Shelby, engine size: 7010 cc, country: USA. I do not have a copy of these papers but the listing is still on FIA's website. The 289 Cobra is also listed as #115 in GT class (5/9/63) and the GT40 #224 group 4 (2/1/66). Bob Bondurant has told me he raced a 427 Cobra in Europe as a GT car. I currently have applied for an "FIA Identity Form" on a 427 Cobra and am waiting to see if they classify it as a GT or Group 4 car.
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03-18-2005, 09:36 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Anglesey,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: Hawk 289FiA with Le Mans hardtop. AC CS(X)2131,289 (my father owned it from `67-`73)
Posts: 1,023
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Not Ranked
Welcome to the ClubCobra forum, MRacing.....Please keep us informed on how you get on, and is it your Cobra? Would you care to share with us the CSX no, where you are and what you plan to do with Cobra?
I think you may be setting a benchmark for some folk here, plenty will for sure be interested!
Nik.
__________________
"If I plagiarize, it's only because I like someone else's idea better than mine and I want credit for it."- Anna Sato-Williams.
"If I plagiarize, it's only because I like someone else's idea better than mine and I want credit for it."- nikbj68
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03-18-2005, 10:10 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 3
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Nik, CSX 3032 is one of the cars which I have been racing the last 4 years and is owned by someone else. I also raced the Willment coupe 2131 at Goodwood last year.
Bill
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03-18-2005, 11:09 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Anglesey,
UK
Cobra Make, Engine: Hawk 289FiA with Le Mans hardtop. AC CS(X)2131,289 (my father owned it from `67-`73)
Posts: 1,023
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Not Ranked
Hi Bill. Now I know who you are! It`s a pleasure to have you here. My Dad met you last year at the Haynes Cobra Event, such a shame I missed it.
All the best with your 2005 programme of events.
Best regards,Nik.
__________________
"If I plagiarize, it's only because I like someone else's idea better than mine and I want credit for it."- Anna Sato-Williams.
"If I plagiarize, it's only because I like someone else's idea better than mine and I want credit for it."- nikbj68
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03-18-2005, 02:41 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Cobra Make, Engine: Early 427 car
Posts: 589
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Not Ranked
3032
Bill - When are you going to race 3032 at Daytona again? There are a couple of us who would like to go down to watch....
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03-18-2005, 04:49 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 3
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Mike,
We are currently planning on running at Daytona in November (HSR race).
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03-18-2005, 05:18 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Outside Miami,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: Several
Posts: 949
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Not Ranked
BM
Welcome. Nice to hear your 'voice.'
Thanks for the FIA file number on the 427 (220), it will help research.
Of course, we did see 427's run in Group 4 in the FIA pro races in 65/66. Everyone hoped for GT, but it never happened. i still think the app docs were withdrawn at the end of 66 and the attempt to get GT acceptance was abandoned by SAI, as instructed by FORD.
Can you imagine trying to win in Group 4 in 66, against Lola T-70s, McLaren M-1B's, Chaparral 4D FIA coupes and others that weighed 500 pounds less? And, they were using near 500HP SBC's?
So, Shel' ran after FORD's money to Le Mans, as would have we all, and the 427 was orphaned to the airport taxiway parking lot for sun and sand abrasion paint testing for most of 1967 and into 1968.
Good luck on your app for GT. i hope you get it. Europeans running 427 Cobras in Group 4/Interseries (Can-Am) would be seriously embarassed in competition. In GT, it would revolutionize the class.
We should be so lucky.
Welcome again.
__________________
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington
Last edited by What'saCobra?; 03-18-2005 at 05:23 PM..
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09-18-2012, 09:19 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri,
KS
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 119
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Not Ranked
Here ya go guys..
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09-20-2012, 06:18 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Outside Miami,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: Several
Posts: 949
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Not Ranked
Fia docs
Many thanks, Sir.
Perhaps more legible copies or 'translations' will become available?
These might well raise more questions than they satisfy, which will offer us more bloating targets and just the slim possibility of more comprehension of long ago and far away events.
Thanks again.
Victor
__________________
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington
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