289 FIA Cobras

[G.R.]

Does anyone know for sure exactly how many of the 2000 series 289 cars were converted to the FIA "cut back door" style. I've read as few as 5, all team cars, to as many as 15, 5 team, 5 "privateer", 5 general public sales as s/c type cars.

Any info?

[computerworks]

Originally posted by G.R.


Does anyone know for sure exactly how many of the 2000 series 289 cars were converted to the FIA "cut back door" style.

Gary... the "cut-back door" was a feature of the FIA cars, as well as some, but not all, of the later race 289's.

Just for your stats, the Registry indicates that:

1. There were 33 CSX2000 Factory Team cars, of which..

-3 were Sebring config
-2 were Lemans config
-3 were Lemans replicas
-2 were 427 protos
-5 were FIA roadsters
-6 were USRRC roadsters
-6 were Coupes

2. There were 12 Factory-prepped Comp CSX2000's, sold to individuals, of which:

-1 was a Riverside replica
-1 was a Lemans proto
-3 were Lemans replicas
-5 were USRRC roadsters, built also for SCCA A/P

[Nedsel]

Gary: Only the FIA and USRRC cars were built at AC Cars in the "cutback door" body style, with front flares and a rear clip much like that of the later 427 cars. They weren't "converted;" that's the way they were originally built.

Ron: There was only one 427 prototype, and that was 2196. Some vendors have attempted to float the idea that 2166 was one also, but it was sold as a stock 289 roadster to its first owner. He had a 427 installed in it, so it was simply a modified car rather than a Shelby prototype. Interestingly, 2166 has since been converted into a Daytona Coupe replica by its current European owner through Robert Sarrailh of LeMans, France.

[computerworks]

Ned, thanks for the clarification.

Friedman consistantly refers to the first prototype, showing Miles in the shop with the car... as well as Bondurant at Riverside and Miles/Morton at Sebring....with the D-shaped nose cuts.

The car was a customer's car?

Attached is CSX2166 in 2001... it's now a coupe?

[Specialk]

the car with the three cuts in the nose was 2196 before it got the fliptop body

2166 was for sale in Germany about a year ago, yes?

[Nedsel]

Ron: Dave and others at Shelby American actually confused some of the race cars, especially the 427 prototype 2196 - as it was first a fairly stock-looking car, then was modified following a crash, and finally was built into the "turd" - oops, I mean the "Flip-Top" with the three cooling slots in the nose. An owner from the '70's attempted to suggest that 2166 was the original example of the prototype, and 2196 was the second. Via factory paperwork, we have since proven that 2196 was actually the only 427 prototype.

Kris: I believe the last place 2166 was offered for sale was through the Burgol Group in Geneva, Switzerland over a year ago.

[G.R.]

So there were 16 FIA and USRRC--cut back door style Cobras--at least if I'm understanding the information.

I used converted as meaning converted from the standard AC production run, done at AC-with some further work done at Shelby's facility for the team and privateer cars.

[Rick Parker]

But several others have "converted" or "modified" their cars to the cutback door configuration.

Rick

[csx700?]

i believe that there were 11 original "cut back door" cars made at the factory:
6 USRRC cars
5 FIA cars
CSX numbers:
2259, 2260, 2301, 2323, 2345, 2385, 2409, 2431, 2488,2494 and 2514
* anyone know how many 7000 series aluminum FIA cars were made?

[Nedsel]

CSX 700: Your list leaves out some important cars built at AC/ completed at Shelby American to typical "cutback door" specs:

2458, Ernie Kesling's independent car; 2513, the Bob Johnson/ CS School of High-Performance Driving car; 2557, and 2558, both of which were used as team cars at least once.

[csx700?]

nedsel
i was just stating that these cars were done by ac at the factory. yes there were many cars modified to the "cut back door" or "wide hip" body and some are still being converted to this day or into coupes. i was using the information available in the new rinsey mills book. the book does list "race car" vehicles being built but it specifically states "wide wing race car" also. what differentiated the "race car" and the "wide wing race car" other than the cars having the wide wings or flares that dictated using the cut back door design i don't know but 'computerworks' seems to have the same numbers i do?

p.s. i also believe that all the "race cars" that were ordered from ac were shipped to "sai" to be completed.

[Nedsel]

CSX 700: The 4 cars I mentioned, plus one I didn't - CSX 2459 - were all built at AC Cars as race cars with the wide fenders & cutback doors. From a bodywork standpoint, they were all constructed identically to the other cars you talked about earlier. Where they eventually differed was the result of the manner in which they were completed at SAI.

I never asked Rinsey how he differentiated the cars in his latest book, but since he used the AC production records as his guide, it's possible they made different notations that he repeated. In any case, I am certain he would agree with the total count of 16 factory-built "cutback door" Cobras.

[csx700?]

nedsel
thanks for the info i often wondered why ac would have built a different body style at the time when other cars were getting the cut back door / wide hip bodies. ned (since your connected with SAAC) you wouldn't happen to know how many of the current 7000 series aluminum fia cars were built would you? thanks........john

[Nedsel]

John - In truth, no I do not know how many of the 7000 series cars have been built in alloy. You may want to check with Kevin Rogers, SAAC's CSX 4000-series registrar, to see if he is also handling the 7000 cars or if he knows who might be. (<4000registrar@saac.com>)

[csx700?]

thank you ned

[Rick Parker]

Since the FIA/USRRC cars had the cutback doors to accomodate the wider rear clip why wasn't it carried through for the 427 production with the same rear clips? Was it deemed unnecessary?
I've always wondered about this.

Rick

[Nedsel]

Rick:

Good question. My guess has always been that since the cutback-door modifications required an additional piece of reverse-bent tubing to form the rear of the door frame, and because the cutback doors limited access somewhat, they were deemd OK for race cars but not for street cars that were built in greater numbers and required easier access. But I'd love to hear other ideas.

[Rick Parker]

Ned:
I thought the cut back door was done originally to allow for some metal shaping and to provide for the additional flaring of the rear fenders but after comparing the rear clips of the FIA/USRRC to that of the 427 car there seems to be very little difference in width and I cannot rationalize why the cut back door design was settled upon in the first place. It certainly would take some additional fabrication at the time of construction. Perhaps it was thought necessary but deemed unnecessary with the advent of the 427 Body car?????

Rick

[Rick Parker]

A friend of mine owned CSX 2318 in about 1971. He sold the car and has been wondering what became of it. Recently he made contact with the current owner who now vintage races it quite successfully in England after a cutback door conversion among other modifications.

[Rick Parker]

Now looks like this:


Being Vintage raced in England quite successfully.

Rick