CSX3051 History

[richsd]

Does anyone have any good historical information on CSX3051? A number of parts on my car came from 3051 and I am just trying to track down some history on this car.

Thanks,

Rich

[computerworks]

...not much in the Registry...did a little local drag racing when new...that's about it.

[richsd]

Thanks for checking. I have the history from the guy that had the parts left over but was hoping to track down some more as I am sure he doesn't have all the info. I did not know about the drag racing.

Thanks

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by richsd

A number of parts on my car came from 3051 and I am just trying to track down some history on this car.
Rich

If the owner of 3051 can be located, would that cars original parts be available to them?

[richsd]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

If the owner of 3051 can be located, would that cars original parts be available to them?

I guess it depends what you mean by "available". Almost anything is available for the right price but this is not likely. Some other original parts that will be cool are two original seats from CSX cars that I have and will be restoring. These came from two separate CSX cars and were removed when racing seats were put in instead of the originals. I don't think those will be finding their way back to those cars either. At least not without a struggle or a big check.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by richsd

I guess it depends what you mean by "available". Almost anything is available for the right price but this is not likely. Some other original parts that will be cool are two original seats from CSX cars that I have and will be restoring. These came from two separate CSX cars and were removed when racing seats were put in instead of the originals. I don't think those will be finding their way back to those cars either. At least not without a struggle or a big check.

I know for a fact that Byots has been looking for a good original seat bladder for quite a while. If you have one that you would be willing to part with, you should contact him.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by richsd

I guess it depends what you mean by "available". Almost anything is available for the right price but this is not likely. Some other original parts that will be cool are two original seats from CSX cars that I have and will be restoring. These came from two separate CSX cars and were removed when racing seats were put in instead of the originals. I don't think those will be finding their way back to those cars either. At least not without a struggle or a big check.

That’s a shame.

I’m sure there are and were owners of original Cobras that may have cared less whether their cars have the correct original parts. I’m also sure there are owners that would like to correct perhaps errors in judgment by prior owners.

Finding original parts to restore or maintain an original Cobra can be very difficult whereas finding a suitable new part to create a replica is much easier. I believe any rare original part should be used first to maintain or restore original Cobras. Just my $.02

[richsd]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

That’s a shame.

I’m sure there are and were owners of original Cobras that may have cared less whether their cars have the correct original parts. I’m also sure there are owners that would like to correct perhaps errors in judgment by prior owners.

Finding original parts to restore or maintain an original Cobra can be very difficult whereas finding a suitable new part to create a replica is much easier. I believe any rare original part should be used first to maintain or restore original Cobras. Just my $.02

Like I said, anything is available for the right price. I would certainly entertain a discussion with an owner of one of the original cars that I have parts from. However, it would not be cheap for the parts to exchange hands to that owner or anyone else. I paid big bucks for these parts and just because the parts were on a particular car 30 years ago does not make me feel charitable toward the current owner. Also, although I would entertain a discussion with an owner of a car that orignally had my parts I don't plan on spending my time hunting for the car that originally had the parts just to see if they would like to buy them back. If they wanted them, they could have traced the ownership/restoration path backwards with a little research and had a chance to buy them before I did. I do actually agree with you that it is very good to bring the original parts back home to their original car but it is a little more complex to resolve when you follow the multiple threads of parts, cars, and owners over the years. Also, why limit this to Cobras. What about all the many car parts for sale for example on Ebay. Should these parts be returned to the car that they originally came from or should they go to the highest bidder? I think that if the owner of the original car would like to be the highest bidder then that would work just fine. Also, it can be more complex depending on the part. In the case of my sidepipes, sure we could just remove them and I have a replica set made. But what about my toploader? Should I take apart my car to sell the transmission to the owner of the original comp car that it was in back in 1965? A pretty complex subject actually. Again, I do agree with the premise of getting the original parts back to the original car but it is a bit more complex and not a problem I am interested in taking on. As you originally asked, "If the owner of 3051 can be located, would that cars original parts be available to them?". Again, sure for a price but I am not going to be the one hunting to locate them. If they end up finding me through research then we will talk.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by richsd

Also, why limit this to Cobras. What about all the many car parts for sale for example on Ebay. Should these parts be returned to the car that they originally came from or should they go to the highest bidder?

I agree that the market sets the price on parts. This isn't limited to Cobras at all. The main difference is that with most other rare collectable cars the primary market for the parts is someone that is restoring or maintaining one of those cars. Duesenberg or Cord transmissions are going to be sought by someone with a Duesenberg or Cord, not by someone trying to produce a recreation. This is not the case with Cobras. There were only 998 recognized serial numbers for all the original Cobras. I have no idea how many replica/continuation car have been produced in 30 + years with most of them trying to replicate one of 50 some original comp or SC Cobras. As you see it doesn’t take too many replica owners to absorb the few remaining original parts on the market.
Many new reproduction parts have been produced to feed the replica market. Many of these parts will not fit an original Cobra correctly. They are at best a ‘will work’ (maybe).

Again, you’re correct it is an open market. I can only suggest that when there is an option of a good newer part to use on a replica rather than perhaps a more expensive and perhaps not as good a part from an original Cobra, why not use the newer part?

[richsd]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

...
Again, you’re correct it is an open market. I can only suggest that when there is an option of a good newer part to use on a replica rather than perhaps a more expensive and perhaps not as good a part from an original Cobra, why not use the newer part?

I think we agree on the spirit of this topic. To answer your question of why not use a newer part than an original part. My answer is because my quest has been to build a re-creation that comes as close as possible to the original and if that can include actual original parts I certainly will do so. If it is the case that the original part is not in good shape I have it restored just as would be done on a restoration of an original car. Again, if the the owner of an original car would like to find me and have a discussion about taking a part off my hands we will talk and figure out what makes sense for both of us. Until such a time, the parts I have will enjoy themselves on my car. Although I would welcome a conversation with an owner of one of these original cars I do not see it as my duty to hunt them down for this conversation.

By the way, I am also able to look at this subject from the other side. I own a 1968 Dodge Charger R/T that my father bought new in 1968. At some point along the line the original Magnum 500 wheels were removed and the shop that had them ended up "losing track of them". I now have a nice replica set of mag wheels on the car. I have looked for original wheels to put on the car. I have found some but chosen not to buy them since I am happy with the repops but some day may decide to go the original route. If I was to somehow find the actual wheels from my car I would certainly pay over market value to return them to the car. This is a little different because it would not just be to bring the car back to original but a car that has been in the family since new. The bottom line is that if I choose to buy an original set of wheels I would have no expectation to receive preferencial treatment from the seller just because I was planning on putting them on an original Charger. Yes this is a bit different than the Cobra since there were less Cobras but I still do not see it as my duty to search out the original car's owner. The reason I have the parts in the first place is because I did the searching. They could have easily beat me to the parts if they searched half as hard as I did.

[Excaliber]

An interesting discussion from both sides of the fence on the original parts question.

I do admire those that seek to build a replica to more exacting standards than is common today. The replica market is more and more moving towards a 'who cares, it's a replica' attitude. Well, I care, as do a handful of others. I gotta admit, I'd be pretty thrilled to have a few original pieces on my replica, and at the same time, would like to see those parts returned to the original car.

...it's a tough call all right! I think richsd has a good handle on it.

[Cracker]

I agree with Richsd. Enjoy your Kirkham with a splattering of original parts. I could be wrong but the "original" market too has benefited for the replica boom over the last twenty years. They could be much worse off without them than with them - repect and appreciate the replica market.

As a personal preference I like newer and better performing components than the old heavy do-dads - but that's me.

[427sharpe]

I'm with ASnake. If the owner showed, I'd trade him the oe parts for replacements of my choosing, freight on him. I think if you love the cars you should respect the originals. Does a replica having an original trunk latch, seat or windshield mean as much to you as it would to the original????? I owned 3 perfect HiPo 289's and they NEVER saw the inside of a replica Cobra or GT350, but one I sold for what I paid for it (and a heck of a lot less than market value) so a 1965 GT350 owner could 'restify' his car with a correct motor. Makes me happy every time I see the car here in town.

[richsd]

I completely agree on the trunk latch. Anything with a CSX number stamped into it should be sold back to the owner of the original car without questions. With other parts, I think this is a great landing place for these parts too but the current owner just needs to compete on price like anyone else. They don't get a pass to avoid competing for the parts just because they own the current car.

[Murphy]

Let's face it, how many original parts out of cobras and other muscle cars were simply tossed into the trash or put into the rafters never to be seen again when cars were converted/restored/modified over the years because no one cared about originality?

I like what richsd did to his car, tastefully done with a clear goal of what he wanted when he started. If some tasty parts were used so be it, at least those parts still exist. If the owner of the original car want's them he can talk to richsd.

[Johnfish]

What would you like to know about csx3051? I knew original owner, Richard Merrill.

[bwcobra15]

Congratulations on resurrecting a 14 year old post

[xb-60]

Be nice to a new member, we've all been there

Johnfish, welcome! Tell us whatever you can about CSX3051. Any new and/or first hand information about original cars is 'gold'!
I, for one, don't have any pictures of 3051

Cheers,
Glen

[Mr Barnwood]

Welcome from California Johnfish, I bet a guy that knew an original Cobra before they became millionaires cars could share some good and fun information with us.
Looking forward to your next post.

[Dominik]

I find this post quite interesting, even though it does not give more info about 3051:

Advice on selling original '65 SC 427


CSX3058 was sold to the VP of Sony Trading Corp, and shipped to Tokyo, CSX3060 went to Kobe, CSX3062 was also shipped to Japan. As of 4/97. CSX3064-CSX3069 were "under construction", CSX3070-CSX3100 were in "frame only" condition. All of which were produced after 1991. (also from the 1997 SAAC registry)

Perhaps Bill (Mr. Mustang) can tell you more about 3051.

I personally saw CSX3063 as a roller from Cobra Restorers(?) at the '95 Convention. Heavily scrutinized by a man with a ruler in his hand.