Mocal oil thermostat mounting

Gunner · #1 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 12:08 PM

I plan to add a Mocal oil thermostat, which should be relatively easy since 707 has the remote oil filter mount. All I need to do is fab a bracket to hold the thermostat on the oil filter bracket and create some new -10AN hoses.

The problem is that I can't find a single fraggin' picture or diagram of the Mocal mount! It looks like a riveted bracket on the thermostat body, but none of the product photos, installation diagrams or many (mostly Porsche) installation photos show the bracket clearly. Can anyone point me to a good pic or diagram of the bracket and how it handles attachment bolts?

Thanks.

RodKnock · #2 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 12:24 PM

Does this help? A recent post.

ERA 753 - Final Assembly in Progress

Gunner · #3 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Does this help? A recent post.

I read that and several other threads. That's not a Mocal thermo, though - it's the Canton, which is prettier but a lot more expensive.

I can find many images of the Mocal, including the mfr installation sheet and product photos, but the mounting bracket is omitted or hidden in every single one. I found a shot of a Porsche installation that shows a bolt head in the bracket, but no indication as to how it got there - the clearance seems very tight.

I plan to "hang" the thermostat by a short hardline from one port of the oil filter mount, then fab a bracket that holds it in that position as an extension of the oil filter mount's plate bracket. Hoses would be refitted with some right-angle fittings to keep the lines clear and straight.

But I need a clearer image of how the darned thing mounts before I can plan the bracket - which I want to do before I actually buy the part. (Design, not fab.)

MFE III · #4 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 01:09 PM

I don't have any further info on the mounting bracket, but I would like to see what you come up with. I was also thinking of someway to attach it directly to the remote filter.

Gunner · #5 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 01:17 PM

We have different chassis and engines, but if your remote filter is attached to the front left head, my plan should work for you. The basic element is to use a combination of Aeroquip fittings to connect the outflow of the filter bracket to the engine-inflow port of the thermostat, then fab a bracket that supports it well in that location, with some adjustment wiggle.

The only part I dread is fabbing new hoses - I can never seem to get a proper connection into AN fittings! :P

MFE III · #6 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 01:20 PM

I'm running a SB, but I fabbed a bracket to mount the remote on the head like a BB.
Keep us posted on your install.
Matt

ERA Chas · #7 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 01:42 PM

You live in Sacramento CA. Do you often drive in 50 deg weather?

As I posted in Fred's thread, I've had 2 Mocals with no increase in oil temps in cool weather. Save yourself a lot of work plus the chance of leaks and cancel the idea. Drive harder or drive in lower gears and you will get oil temp up.

If you're bent on the idea, then get the Canton that Fred has which seems more effective at getting a little temp in the oil.

Gunner · #8 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 02:31 PM

Weather here is variable - summers tend to be long and hot (90-105) but the rest of the year is moderate to cool. We often have cool/cold weather with no rain, so winter driving is not the rarity it might be elsewhere.

In two long drives (25 minutes each way), driving moderately, the oil temp never got over 60. I might wait to see how things go when I drive longer trips, but it looks like for some good part of the season and for any trip that doesn't involve hard driving or high speeds, oil temp is going to be an issue.

I was also looking at the 200* unit, not the 180*.

My thinking is that if the Mocal is good enough for the Porsche guys...

ERA Chas · #9 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

My thinking is that if the Mocal is good enough for the Porsche guys...

...you should be able to eat Porsche guys-especially with 446 CI. What makes you think they know things we Cobra guys don't? I only run the turbo guys and do with less displacement, so the Mocals ain't helping them with much of anything.

Gunner, the Mocals bleed too much oil as bypass to raise temps much. The Earls I had bled less and the quality was much, much better. Both Mocals required extensive deburring of the passages and the springs were crap. Fred's Canton seems effective.

I have seen some well made Mocal coolers but not t'stats.
I have an Earls and it's been faultless.

If you just want a project to dingle with something, have at it. But you'd be better off just capping the lines at the remote filter for the cooler weather and letting the oil stay in the block.

fkemmerer · #10 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

I read that and several other threads. That's not a Mocal thermo, though - it's the Canton, which is prettier but a lot more expensive.

I can find many images of the Mocal, including the mfr installation sheet and product photos, but the mounting bracket is omitted or hidden in every single one. I found a shot of a Porsche installation that shows a bolt head in the bracket, but no indication as to how it got there - the clearance seems very tight.

I plan to "hang" the thermostat by a short hardline from one port of the oil filter mount, then fab a bracket that holds it in that position as an extension of the oil filter mount's plate bracket. Hoses would be refitted with some right-angle fittings to keep the lines clear and straight.

But I need a clearer image of how the darned thing mounts before I can plan the bracket - which I want to do before I actually buy the part. (Design, not fab.)

Gunner,

Some thoughts for you to consider as you plan your oil thermostat installation. You will probably be working with -10 braided stainless steel hoses. These are not very flexible and probably won't bend very sharply either. Based on my experience with the canton unit in my ERA, I think that you are going to have to mount whatever thermostat that you use some distance away from both the oil filter mount and the area where the hoses from the cooler enter the engine bay. This will give you room to make smooth bends with your hoses. This is why I mounted my thermostat in the center of the car behind the radiator. As it was, I had just enough room to get the hoses to fit properly. Also note that there is one other advantage to having the thermostat in that location. The coolant gets warm long before the oil does and I suspect that the warm air coming out the back of the radiator probably transfers some heat to the oil via the thermostat when the oil is still relatively cold. This probably works better with the canton unit which has a larger aluminum housing than the Mocal does.

What sorts of problems do you have relative to getting AN fittings to work well for you? I've probably done over 100 of these hoses at this point - may be able to help you there. Here's a link to a good thread on this forum on the topic of making AN lines:

Anyone put together their own steel braided lines?

I hope that this helps.

- Fred

Barnsnake · #11 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 03:57 PM

Gunner,
Check my gallery. There is a picture in there. The bracket doesn't really show since it's behind the thermostat. It's a [ shape with a hole in each end that the thermostat clips into. The thermostat is fairly light and could be supported by securely anchoring the oil lines.

MFE III · #12 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 04:23 PM

I have been wrestling with where to mount the thermostat for some time and one location that I'm now leaning toward is in front of the radiator mounted to the underside of the top radiator bracket (the one with the cotter pin). It would certainly allow for wide sweeping angles for the SS lines.
Matt

Gunner · #13 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

.the Mocals bleed too much oil as bypass to raise temps much. The Earls I had bled less and the quality was much, much better.

Noted, thanks. I'm not dead set on the Mocal but the Canton just has the wrong look for a '66 underhood. If I was that much into into billet and anodizing I'd have a new Bullitt instead.

I will probably experiment with bypassing the cooler first. I would just take it out and see if my oil temps ever got to something worryable, but for originality I'd rather keep the cooler in place and discreetly plumb in a valve or thermostat. If I do it just to dingle with things, It's all easily reversible and I'm only out a couple of hundred in fiddling money.

And I don't know what my problem with AN lines is. I've followed every rule and read every trick, and I just can't get the sononvaguns to go together right. I'll try some of the trick tools this time.

As for hose geometry, my eyeball assessment says I can do it with the right angled fittings. I wouldn't try to do it with straight hose ends and bending.

fkemmerer · #14 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

Noted, thanks. I'm not dead set on the Mocal but the Canton just has the wrong look for a '66 underhood. If I was that much into into billet and anodizing I'd have a new Bullitt instead.

I will probably experiment with bypassing the cooler first. I would just take it out and see if my oil temps ever got to something worryable, but for originality I'd rather keep the cooler in place and discreetly plumb in a valve or thermostat. If I do it just to dingle with things, It's all easily reversible and I'm only out a couple of hundred in fiddling money.

And I don't know what my problem with AN lines is. I've followed every rule and read every trick, and I just can't get the sononvaguns to go together right. I'll try some of the trick tools this time.

As for hose geometry, my eyeball assessment says I can do it with the right angled fittings. I wouldn't try to do it with straight hose ends and bending.

Gunner,

Makes sense. If you do use a thermostat (either Mocal or Canton), consider mounting it down low behind the radiator. It will not be very conspicuous there.

On you problems with the AN lines, suggest you get a set of Kool Tools assembly aides and a hose cutter. These two tools helped my results a lot and sped things up considerably.

Just a suggestion if you decide to try bypassing your cooler - you'll need to do this inside the engine bay with a new line. I tired simply blocking my cooler with some cardboard before installing my thermostat and it did not make much difference. I think this was due to all of the side and line cooling surfaces on the cooler which were still exposed to cold air.

- Fred

Bobcat · #15 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 05:37 PM

Gunner .... FYI . I spent 30 years in the hydraulics industry and ran some tests with one of our customers on pressure drop on various fittings . A rough rule of thumb is a 90 degree fitting has a pressure drop equal to 10 feet of hose and a 45 degree has a drop equal to 20 feet of line ( based on 15 ft/sec oil flow ) . In other words , we tried everything we could to avoid 90 degree fittings . If you have to use one , use the ones with the gradual tube bends and not the abrupt machined ones .

Gunner · #16 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 05:56 PM

Bobcat, my hydraulics experience is only a few years (on remote manipulator equipment, very fussy stuff) and I won't question your statements, but... are you speaking of pressure or flow? And what absolute drop are we talking about here - that is, what IS the pressure drop of 20 feet of line? I also understood (from the engineering team I worked with, who dealt with both generator-engine lubrication and the HP hydraulics side), that high pressure stuff and the relatively low-pressure, high-flow lubrication hydraulics are completely different animals.

Overall, I'd say extending a 50-60 psi oiling circuit with ten feet of perfectly smooth line has more negative effect alone than the addition of a few smooth-bend angled fittings, not to mention all the jinks and twists of the oil remote blocks and the cooler. But I could be wrong. In any case, I do mean the smoothly swept Aeroquip stuff, not angle block fittings.

Gunner · #17 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fkemmerer

On you problems with the AN lines, suggest you get a set of Kool Tools assembly aides and a hose cutter. These two tools helped my results a lot and sped things up considerably.

I thought I'd make the investment in some of the helper tools. I have a whole truckload of lines to make for the Mustang and would prefer not to job out the task, nor waste any more line (6AN, fortunately) in larnin'.

Quote:

Just a suggestion if you decide to try bypassing your cooler - you'll need to do this inside the engine bay with a new line.

Even easier, I can just reposition one of the cooler lines, remove the second one and cap off the cooler fittings. That might be a little messy but good enough to see how much effect the cooler has or doesn't have.

RedBarchetta · #18 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

Even easier, I can just reposition one of the cooler lines, remove the second one and cap off the cooler fittings. That might be a little messy but good enough to see how much effect the cooler has or doesn't have.

An idea that may come in handy. In my emergency tool bag I keep a ready section of Aeroquip AN10 line with 90* male fittings, all pre-cut and assembled to fit the gap between the in/out fittings on the oil cooler. If I ever puncture the oil cooler out on the road, then it's simply splicing in the connector piece to the existing lines with a wrench. Beats calling AAA and asking for a flatbed tow home.

-Dean

Rwillia4 · #19 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 06:48 PM

Gunner,

I purchased a MOCAL thermostat. Mine came with the mount. It is very basic and I can take a picture of it if you need it. So unless you heard otherwise I think it will come with the bracket. I purchased mine from here: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/c...Oil_Thermostat
Let me know if you still want a picture.

I agree that you want to invest in the tool kit (one that has vise clamps and the split haves http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/c...ip_Accessories). Rap some of the blue masking tap around where you are going to cut the hose, this will keep it from fraying. Don't be afraid of excessive WD-40 to get the hose seated. And finally wear gloves it will keep your hands from slipping and a piece of stainless wire from going DEEP into your hand.

Bobcat · #20 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 07:09 PM

Gunner .... you`re correct on extending the line an extra 10 feet . The point I was making ( maybe not that well ) is that it is best to avoid abrupt 90 degree fittings unless absolutely necessary .... and then use the gradual bend tube ones . One of the things we found was the gradual bend fittings made for a more laminar flow in the oil and the abrupt 90`s induced a lot of turbulence .... does this make a major difference in a car`s oiling system ? Probably not , but I still avoid 90`s where possible ..... I can`t break some habits .
I`m speaking of both pressure and flow ... the delta P will increase as the flow increases . The pressure drop in the line/system will depend on line size , flow , oil viscosity , temperature and other factors . For a constant orifice size and viscosity , the higher the flow , the greater the delta P in the system . Again , on our systems , this isn`t a huge problem ... again , just saying that smooth bends are always preferred if you have the room .