Starter Woes - Won't stop

[Rolling Thunder]

I need some help with a problem I can't figure out. I've got a 351 Cleveland in my Cobra. Owned it for three months now. No problems until a couple weeks ago.

While trying to start the car, the starter would continue turning over, even after releasing the key from the start position to the run position of the ignition switch. More confusing is that I could turn the switch to the off position and remove the key completely and it would still keep turning. This all without the engine ever firing up. The only way to get it to stop turning is was to use the kill swith.

Thinking my ignition switch went bad, I bought and installed a new Lucas replacement (good thing Superformance is less than an hour away!). That got the car starting and the starter stopping with only a couple short recurrences after installation, but now, about a week later the problem has returned.

I don't get it. The starter should only turn if there is power to it, right? If I turn off the ignition and remove the key, shouldn't that cut off all power to the starter?

I don't understand what the problem is, nor how to fix it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Keith

[WestCoastBill]

The ignition switch sends power to the solenoid...the solenoid sends power to the starter. If you get a volt meter, learn how to use it, these kind of problems will get much simpler to cure. Good luck, Bill

[wilf leek]

Keith - your ignition switch does not directly feed the starter, as the current taken by the starter itself would be far too high for it. (300 Plus Amps) What it does is energise a solenoid which could be integrated into the starter, or it could be a separate unit, depending on your set up. This solenoid then connects the heavy duty contacts to allow current to flow through the starter.

It sounds as though you have a sticking solenoid. If it sticks in the "on" position, the starter will continue to run no matter what you do with the ignition switch. Not sure why the engine wouldn't fire tho', could be a quirk of your set up.

So, in summary, drop off the solenoid or starter and get it checked out.

HTH

Wilf

[Bob Putnam]

Keith,

You have a starter solenoid in your system, either mounted directly on your starter, or interposed between the starter and the battery. We mount ours right on the firewall. I suspect that it might be your problem.

Follow the power (+) wire from the battery to the starter. The solenoid will be in there somewhere, with another smaller wire (or two) connected to it. One of the smaller wires comes from the ignition switch. The next time you have the problem, disconnect the small wire(s) from the solenoid. If the starter still runs, the problem is definitely the solenoid.

[computerworks]

This could be an issue of ambiguous terms, but...

I believe the starter system consists of an ignition switch, momentary contact, that energizes a starter relay. The relay allows a low-current switch in the dash to turn on a high-current set of contacts for the starter motor.

When the current is finally applied to the starter motor, a starter solenoid, which is an electric-to-mechanical conversion device, pulls in a clutched gear to engage with the flywheel and crank the engine.

The solenoid engages the starter motor mechanically.
The relay engages the starter motor electrically.

If the starter motor runs on after the ignition switch is released, the relay could be stuck on.
If the starter motor makes an interesting symphony of mechanical noise, the solenoid could not be 'pulling out'

[Larry Hills]

Some Fords have a in-line starter solenoid. Sometimes they will stick closed (the started keeps running). The soleniod is turned on when you turn the key to the start position and turned off when you let the key go back to the on position. The soleniod had three wires on it: One from the batt., one to the starter and one from the ignition sw.
Get a remote start switch. Disconnect the wire that runs from the solenoid to the ign. sw. Hookup the remote start sw. Turn on the ign sw & try the remote start sw. If the starter doesn't stop when you release the remote start sw, you have a bad solenoid.
If it does take a look at the wiring, you may have short.

[Rolling Thunder]

Thanks guys. Just finished installing a new solenoid. Seems to be working for now. All your help and info is greatly appreciated.

Now if I could only figure out why it no longer has spark. Looks like a new thread topic.

Keith

[DaveSemko]

It sounds like the spark control and/or coil is not getting constant power when the key is in the 'on' position. Not sure what type of spark control you have (MSD, Duraspark etc.) - but I'll bet this is the problem. You should also check the ground to the spark control, if it has a poor ground the spark will not occur...

Good luck

[Rolling Thunder]

Thanks Dave...

but I still could use some direction. The ignition system on the car looks like a basically stock early seventies Ford. The builder didn't put in anything like an MSD.

If I follow the wires from the coil to anywhere but the distributor, I end up in one of two places: 1) a small square metal box that looks a lot like a narrower version of an old voltage regulator, or 2) a rectangular piece of porcelin. Neither of which have anything resembling a 'ground' wire.

What should I be looking for and how should it be grounded?

Thanks again,

Keith

[Cobra20646]

Keith,
You said "or 2) a rectangular piece of porcelin"
This is the coil ballast resistor and may be defective. You can bypass it with a jumper wire to test it. If the car starts, shut if off and replace the ballast. Don't run it for long without the ballast or you'll risk damaging your points and/or the coil.
- Jim -

[aeroace]

Ford starter solenoids stick sometimes. Especially the cheap replacement solenoids. I always have a 13mm wrench in my pocket in case so that I can smack the top of the solenoid to unstick it. The other mechanic carries a small ball peen hammer. The contact in the solenoid can weld itself on from the current. After fixing your solenoid problem, the no start problem is a no spark problem? At the solenoid is the ballast resistor bypass wire. It dlivers full voltage to the coil during cranking. If this is bad, the engine will only try to fire for a split second after cranking but before stopping spinning completely. If the ballast resistor is bad, the motor will only try to fire during cranking the starter. If the ignition key was left on for an extended period of time without the engine running, you might have burned up the coil.

[Jack21]

Fords use a separate starter solenoid to power the starter, and sometimes the contacts will weld together. When that happens, the starter will keep turning. Time for a new solenoid, $12 - $18. Ford solenoids also supply 12 volts during start to the coil, bypassing the ballast resistor. The ballast resistor reduces coil voltage during run to about 7 volts. Ballast resistors are frequent ignition culprits. Chryslers were the worst.

$29.95 at Radio Shack will get you a good enough volt-ohm meter for automotive and household use.

Consider upgrading to an aftermarket ignition system such as an MSD, Crane, or Accel. Also consider an aftermarket starter like the Powermaster.