FE Cooling issue

[vettestr]

Hats off to the collective wisdom available here on the site. I know I leaned on the things being done as a sanity check and a few new tricks too. I was able to get 540 inches to live on the t-stat in Phoenix traffic at 110+ outside, but it took some work.

The Lincoln/Taurus 2 speed fan and posts by Elmariachi helped push me over the goal line. It does pull a few amps on high speed but I had plenty of power to spin the alternator after I kept her from overheating.

It sounds like you are close to meeting the cooling needs but still a little short. Try rolling up a couple of beach towels and prop open the hood a few inches. Place the towels under the hood near the windshield and take a test trip down the road. If allowing a little more air through the rad. and out of the engine bay drops the temp a few degrees then you know you just need more air flow.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by vettestr

Try rolling up a couple of beach towels and prop open the hood a few inches. Place the towels under the hood near the windshield and take a test trip down the road. If allowing a little more air through the rad. and out of the engine bay drops the temp a few degrees then you know you just need more air flow.

If you do this, just to be on the safe side, fasten your hood down with some twine or something. We had a local Cobra Club member have his hood go sailing off his car after he forgot to turn the hood handles to the "closed" position and then took her out on the interstate for a fast run.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by vettestr

The Lincoln/Taurus 2 speed fan and posts by Elmariachi helped push me over the goal line. It does pull a few amps on high speed but I had plenty of power to spin the alternator after I kept her from overheating

Sidebar story on that:

My Mexican reman'd 100 amp 1-wire alternator resisted that amp-sucking fan since day one (late 2009). The guy that rebuilt it warned me the 3G old-style alternator would maybe make it a year pushing that fan in Houston heat. So we are out in the God-forsaken desert expanse of West Texas this last April for the Big Bend Open Road Race and sure enough, voltmeter starts showing 9 volts. I called el Jefe and told him to FedEx me another. Alternator showed up the night before the race. The housing was clocked wrong so we used the old one to confirm we could disassemble and re-clock without issues. In the process, the brushes and guts fell out of the old one onto the floor of the trailer, serving as a stern warning. No biggie. But in the process of slightly separating the new one to rotate the housing, I pulled too hard and it came apart. Houston, we have a problem: Springs and bits and pieces of brushes everywhere.

My HCC buds helped me keep my cool long enough to figure out that we had a good top brush from the old alternator and a good bottom brush from the new one. Perfect. But how the hell do you keep the spring-loaded brushes in place inside the holder so you can re-stab the aramature? (Visualize heads and asses being thoroughly scratched while sucking on many cold beers.) Then the FE gods arrived. Two guys I didn't even know from Waco, TX running a Cobra and steeped in all things Ford and FE walked up and said "Oh yea, you gotta have a paperclip for that." "A paperclip?" Yep. Fifteen minutes later it was all back together, on the car and pumping 14+ volts. Now how the hell lucky is THAT? 10PM in the parking lot the night before the race, dazed and confused, about to eat $2500 in expenses and miss the race, then a guy with the right answers walks up.

Morale of the story: Get a big frigging alternator. And thanks to Ted Eaton and Jody Orsag for bailing my Okie butt out of a jam.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Clois Harlan]

See what nice friends you have Mat. I can come over tonight if you are going to be working on it? May have to fire up the garage heater because I think it is only in the 80's today!

Clois

[DAVID GAGNARD]

"Oh yea, you gotta have a paperclip for that." "A paperclip?" Yep.

Been there, done that, one too many times!!!!!! There's always a bunch of paper clips in my tool box and tool bag that goes to the races with me.......It took me a while to figure it out, but once done, it's a breeze...........

David

[vettestr]

Elmariachi, I think voltage sags in cars even close to mine when the fan kicks to high speed, something to do with the flux capacitor ??

Patrickt, If you use hotel towels they seem to work better. One of our gang showed me the towel trick for a parade. Just that little extra air made a big difference in the stop and stop more running that day. The front hinges seem to hold things down for a short test but the small effort is well worth it, good idea.

[undy]

one wire alternators = lower voltage than a 3 wire.

The one wire alternators tend to run a full volt lower that a correctly wired 2 or 3 wire alternator, 13.2 versus 14.2. That alone makes a significant difference in the RPMs of a DC motor. (cooling fan)

[Jerry Clayton]

I wire directly from the alternator to the fan relays so shortest routing and highest voltage---no need for the electric to go from alternator, thru the whole wiring system/dash and back up front to fan-----use the shortest route possible.

[951mat]

I tried the towel trick last night and it seem to help some. Not supprising as the temps under hood are quite rediculous. I have to wear a glove to work throttle on the carb when doing timing! On another ride with a buddy it built to 220 deg and seem to hold there. I'll be honest, after I crank my car, in about 3 minutes I'm reading 180+ degrees. That doesn't seem right at all. I bet most of you guys don't read those temps for 10 min or more. I'm really leaning towards having a slight head gasket issue. Found a big ol fat exhaust leak on the 5 header tube too. Its frustrating b/c after I wrecked my car I rebuilt with a similar/better radiator, but the only difference is that now its at an angle and I have a new fan (like Woodard's) with a better shroud. It never overheated like this before, even sitting in the garage (which would negate the angle of the radiator)

Mat

[elmariachi]

Mat,

Have you tried starting it cold with the radiator cap off to see if it heats up as quickly? And how many psi is the cap you are using?

Jim

[undy]

A backwards installed head gasket (easy to do) will cause an uncontrollable overheat condition also.

[951mat]

Tried starting it w/o cap. Still got hot quickly. Within 3 minutes its up to 180. 5-6 minutes is pushing 200. I have a 1/8" hole drilled in the thermostat. Within 20 seconds, I'd estimate, my upper radiator hose (cool flex) is warming up. I did find much of my hot engine bay issue. side pipe gaskets blow badly on both side. That will significanlty reduce under hood temps, but doesn't explaing upper radiator hose warming so damn fast. Thank you all again for the help.

Underdrive pulleys, my pulley on the crank shaft is ~5.5 inches, the one on the pump is same or 6" max. Are these actually underdriven sizes?

Mat

[elmariachi]

Can you see water moving through the expansion tank?

[951mat]

thru the radiator with the cap off, yes. I don't have an expansion tank.
engine builder is thinking warped head since is heats up so fast. Before I pull engine, I may pull pump to make sure all is intact inside. But I know I've see water rushing thur radiator with cap off and water level a little low so I could see what was happening in there.

Mat

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by 951mat

Underdrive pulleys, my pulley on the crank shaft is ~5.5 inches, the one on the pump is same or 6" max. Are these actually underdriven sizes?
Mat

yes they are, you need the water pump pulley to be 1 to 2 inches smaller in diameter than the crank pulley, that way you are overdriving the water pump slightly.......if they are the same size, and I'm guessing they are, you should still be o-k, but at the limit......
If you're seeing the water temp gauge at 180 after only 3 minutes of running, there is something wrong, should take at least twice that if not more...for the upper hose to warm up soo quickly, could it be possible you have a reverse rotation water pump?????????? the upper hose should not warm up until the thermostat opens and sends hot water thru it to the radiator.......
something out of wack here, big time........

David

[RICK LAKE]

951mat I heard that you changed the radiator angle in the car?? Any truth to this?? If you did put it back to a 15-40 degree angle, here is another problem, Air doesn't like to bent. At highway speeds over 40 mph the fans do nothing to help get more air through the radiator. enought air will cool the motor and raditor because of speed. Just like Nascar.
The debate goes on about which raditor does more to remove the heat from the water/coolant as it passes through.
Either way If it's simple, put the rad back to up and down if you can and retest. If you can't do this, you need to add a splitter in the opening to bend the air so that it helps cooling. Have a save trip. Rick L.

[bigmike]

I find this post to be a painfull flashback....I fought overheating with my Shell Valley for 5 years. I was running a 427 SO that I bought "rebulit". I tried everything : coolant mix, timing, monster radiators, shrouds, etc., etc.. Finally, out of desperation, my wife told me to just to buy a new engine (love that woman). I bought a genesis aluminum short block, and moved all of my goodies from the iron FE over to it. It warmed up to 200°, and stayed there forever, no matter what. An autopsy on the iron block indicated that it had been overbored to the point that the cylinder walls were only .032" thick! I never had a chance.

[951mat]

Thanks Rick, but my radiator can't change the angle its at. All (that I know of) Lonestars do have their radiators laid back ~20+ degrees. Many of these cars have bigblocks and no cooling problems. I have a few more things to try, but am still concerned about how fast it warms up. Clois told me his takes 14 minutes to get to temp at rest. That does make me worry. Can't work on for a week, but will try to post progress. Thanks.

Mat

[951mat]

I'm guessing a headgasket leak washing down the number 6 cylinder.
Any other opinions? I'd think this explains it heating up in 3 minutes.

Mat

[lovehamr]

Well at least you found it.