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06-23-2011, 08:45 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Not Ranked
Hard start when hot
I would appreciate all thoughts and comments on my question. Here is my issue. When the engine is cold, engines cranks, starts right up no issues. After driving and getting the engine up to temperature and then stopping, I have a hard time starting. The starter motor sounds like it is laboring and cranking slow as if I have a low battery. The motor does start, but after a period of continuous slow cranking. Do I have some sort of heat issue in the starter motor where it is getting too hot and not able to draw sufficient current? Thanks in advance for all who take the time to read and answer. Jerry
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Jerry
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06-23-2011, 09:46 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Diego,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,979
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Not Ranked
I would start with looking at heat soak issues on the starter and the size of the battery cables to make sure they are sufficient for the distance.
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06-23-2011, 09:52 PM
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Corralitos,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: 1980 Arntz 427W, Webers, TKO600, Jag IRS
Posts: 476
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Not Ranked
Do a load test on the battery first. I had the same problem and replaced the starter only to discover it was the battery.
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Tom
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06-24-2011, 04:20 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,797
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Not Ranked
"Hot" motors ie: cams, heads, compression etc can be harder to start hot for many reasons.
Starter motor current draw can be higher due to heat soak, resistance increases as temp increases, coupled with high compression and more static timing than stock only adds to the "drag" on the starter.
Try retarding your timing back to 7 - 10 degrees to see if starts easier, or even disable the ignition system and crank the engine without spark.
If it's still slow, then start looking at voltage drop loss up to the starter.
Could be a faulty starter motor.
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Gary
Gold Certified Holden Technician
Last edited by Gaz64; 06-24-2011 at 04:29 AM..
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06-24-2011, 07:34 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chester Springs,
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 289 FIA #690, FRPP 427 Boss engine
Posts: 764
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Not Ranked
Do you have a standard or mini-starter? Heat soak is more of an issue with standard starters. It is also one of the reasons with a mini-starter and a firewall mounted solenoid, the high current positive battery lead is not switched, the start signal is. This then points to proper grounding of the starter/engine. What kind of ground are you using? Did you run the negative battery post directly to the engine and then a ground strap to the chassis or the other way around?
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Kirkham #690 289 FIA
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06-24-2011, 09:13 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 3,077
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Starter should spin engine about 200 rpms
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06-24-2011, 01:42 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Thanks, I will start to look at the wire and ground. I have a standard starter. Can someone elaborate on "heat soak" and some remedies?
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Jerry
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06-24-2011, 02:13 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: No city...only 118 residents in Manter,
KS
Cobra Make, Engine: Cobra Auto Works body, Ron Godell Racecars chassis, 1989 Mustang GT 5.0 HO (converted to carb), W/C T-5, 3.73's in a Ford 9" Traction-Loc.
Posts: 812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry w
Can someone elaborate on "heat soak" and some remedies?
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Heat soak occurs when the starter is heated up by the ambient temperature in the area of the starter. I had the problem with a Cleveland once...it would start fine when cold, but as soon as the engine was heated up it would act exactly like yours, struggling to turn the motor over.
A couple of suggestions:
You might be able to get the engine to turn more quickly if you trim off a couple of degrees of initial timing. If your car has a high compression ratio, the starter will be "challenged" without the heat factor, much less when it gets up to operating temperature (and particularly at the high end of the operating temperature range).
Here's what I did (don't know if you will be able to do this or not): I went to the auto supply store and bought a thick asbestos pad large enough to wrap the starter. I cut it to clear the cable attachment, wrapped it around the starter, and then cut a metal coffee can up so that I could wrap it around the starter on top of the asbestos pad. I used a large clamp (one for securing the exhaust hose from a clothes dryer) to hold the items together. Never had any trouble again, started VERY well regardless of temperature. I don't know if asbestos pads are still available or not....you might want to check a welding supply store, they sell various forms of heat shield materials that might make the job possible without the asbestos product.
One more thing....rebuilt starters are real problems where heat soak is concerned....get a NEW starter if yours wasn't. That might fix the problem real quickly.
Cheers from Dugly
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06-24-2011, 06:00 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 3,077
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You might have a bad starter, old style cost about $25.00?
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06-26-2011, 04:31 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rockland County,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast Cobra/427
Posts: 853
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Jerry:
I feel your pain man. I had similar problem: Here is what I did, purchased a Hi-Torque starter from Summit Racing, installed the heat shiled on it changed the 2nd solenoid, installed a 1/2" phenolic spacer between the carb and manifold, changed the gas filter element and now it is fine. The issue is really for the most part vapor lock, the engine gets hot (but not overheated) and the gas boils in the line as well as the carb when you try to start the car-----zippo nothing. There is another trick slapp the accelerator 2-3 times (no choke) and try to start it wil go. Naturally you also need to ensure that your timing, battery cables are ok . Hope it helps.
Lou
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06-26-2011, 05:53 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Not Ranked
Thanks to all who replied, this gives me several options to try. Best regards...Jerry
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Jerry
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07-16-2011, 03:32 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Not Ranked
For anyone interested I bought a thermal wrap from jegs specifically for protecting Starter motors from heat, happy to report my problem of starting when hot is solved......
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Jerry
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