Suspension Question

Mac Osborne · #1 (**permalink**) 03-03-2012, 06:21 PM

Hi guys, I am a new user and have a firends (I think it is a Street Beast) Cobra replica in my garage. I am trouble shooting a couple of things for him on this car. (he pruchased it with a collection of a few other odd vehicles) One thing I am chasing down was some suspension noise/bumping and I discovered the lower control arm supports/struts are missing their bushings on both sides where they connect to the frame. I am pretty much a "Mustang guy" and this custom suspension stuff is new to me. I was hoping some of you could help me identify this set up and maybe the mfg of it and any thoughts you might have ? Thanks

joyridin' · #2 (**permalink**) 03-03-2012, 06:45 PM

Personally, I would get rid of that connection and use a heim joint. Find a grade 8 bolt and you won't have any problem. If you still want to keep the bushing, you will have to measure the ID and OD and find a good polyurethane bushing or just make one.

Ralphy · #3 (**permalink**) 03-03-2012, 06:58 PM

It's a Mustang II/Pinto aftermarket suspension. There is also a lower A arm conversion that can be done. Manufacture? I think the rack is Pinto. Don't buy cheap Heims.

Parts are plentiful! Many of today's aftermarket chassis are built off the MII geometry. Try any performance shop. Heims are easily found also.

mickmate · #4 (**permalink**) 03-03-2012, 07:44 PM

If you want polyurethane take a look here Energy Suspension Parts - Universal Link - Flange Type Bushings Information

Mac Osborne · #5 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 06:42 AM

Thats for the info gentlemen, at least I know what direction to look and a couple of options. I called the owner last night and he is suppose to get the paperwork/books that go with the car from the previous owner today or (tomorrow. I am hoping there might be some info on the suspension in that paperwork. If not, the heims or just new bushings will certainly cure it (the bushings might do a better job insulating the suspension from the frame). I have the shop heat on and will venture out today to remove/measure what's on the car. I am a little concerned about how "narrow" the end is (metal part) and wonder if that might have been some of the issue of early failure since it doesn't have much shoulder to work with. (if it was a two piece bushing).

bobcowan · #6 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 10:06 AM

You're probably best served with a rod end (heim joint) there. You will notice no difference in ride quality, and it will have zero bind. It will also probably be a little cheaper.

Do not use grade 8 bolt there. That's double shear there, and not compression. An 8 will fracture long before a 5 will.

You'll need to make some spacers out of heavy wall tubing to locate the joint and reduce the shear forces. Something like this, at the frame end of the arm.

FWB · #7 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 11:27 AM

the heim jointed bar is someones bastardization of a strut rod. the bushing that is missing probably went missing within a few miles of it being installed.

the lower arms pictured will accept a factory ford strut rod. the problem is, what strut rod.........pinto? mustang? or granada?

from the angle in the picture it appears to be the pinto, they have the steepest angle out of the three and theoretically the weakest.

NOS rods can be obtained thru "Green Sales" for a trouble free front end i would advise to just install the factory rods......the mustand and pinto share the same end bushing, so they are available anywhere, the nut that attaches them is special locking type.....

you can measure straight up to the lower arm from the rod mounting hole to see which rod is used, i think i have a pinto set here in my shop.....

FWB · #8 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 11:38 AM

here's mine....two nuts on bottom.....like yours........has factory strut rod attached.

Mac Osborne · #9 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 12:46 PM

Brad. I am pretty sure it use to be a double heim bar. You can see the end that failed has been cut off at the base of the old fitting and the metal circle was welded on to make room for some sort of rubber/plastic bushing. I just did a quick tape measure and it looks to be 10 -7/8 center to center. the bracket you can see is about 1.45 inside diam. with .51 openings (1/2). Other end has a heims with a lock nut.

joyridin' · #10 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 08:00 PM

That is a good point. Unbolt that goofy bar and just install a factory unit with the proper bushings. Streetbeasts and CMC's were set-up for Mustang 2 front suspension. I would assume the strut rod would be from a M2. My old CMC had a factory original M2 front end on it before I swapped it all out.

If I had to guess, it also has a M2 rack as they were set-up for that also. I'm not an expert, but I believe the Pinto rack only has a single set of mounting whereas the M2 had the double set. Not 100% sure as I was never a M2 or Pinto fan.

Mac Osborne · #11 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 06:39 AM

I want to verify what "joyridin" said about the Street Beast being set up with Mustang II front suspension. (anyone else out there have one of these ?) I found a couple places on the net that sell complete sets of OEM Lower Control Arm Struts with bushings, but want to be sure before I order them (and end up with the wrong stuff) . After searching local and talking to a couple of "rod shops" in Richmond, it looks like going back with the factory struts (since it looks like "FWB's") might be the best bet for simplicity and a longer life.

Ralphy · #12 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 07:14 AM

Hey it's your call. But I don't know why you would want to go back to OEM. Aurora sells very good Heims I believe. Plus you can buy seals from Seal It.

Mac Osborne · #13 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 07:26 AM

Ralphy, My only concern about going back with Heims is that there would be no "insulation" on that joint from the wheel to the frame. (and would road noise transfer to the frame with Heims on both end ?)
The rods shops say I need a bushing, but on the other hand, this IS A RACE CAR of sorts so maybe a Heims would be ok. Would be much easier for me to do a Heims than to go back to OEM. (Doing a favor for a friend (his car he just bought) , but he has hinted he would love for me to "make him an offer" and take it off his hands.

Ralphy · #14 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 10:01 AM

Mac, I guess you would also need to change the coil-overs. Because they haven't any isolation. How about the rear? Is it isolated? Better check if those motor mounts are solid. You'll need to toss those also. Get my point? How is it put? A Cobra snarls and bucks, rides hard and smells, Those are the good points, something like that. Value wise you have more to offer with performance parts. The car should be designed for the owner I guess. However, this is a market that cherishes originality, you have guys trying to replicate originals. Not saying this car comes near original. Heck people argue whether you should have a his and her roll bars or radio. Ask about a cup holder and someone will blast you here. All in fun maybe!

Have you noticed others pics? Pretty much all solid mounted. You can isolate one end and leave the Heim at the other. That's somewhat common. One thing that has my curiosity. The length of that link seems it pivots shorter than the OEM points. It would seem to me this would toe the front out in regard to jounce seeing it may have a shorter radius. Maybe the pivot points could be lengthened? You have two inner pivot holes? Also not sure you know, there are shortened LCA's made. I think the factory length is 14". Shortened or narrowed come in minus 5/8".

Not sure what or how, maybe home made. But pretty cheap looking in all honesty. The Heim or whatever it is.

Seals-It

Rod Ends, Spherical Bearings & Bushings - Aurora Bearing Company

FWB · #15 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Osborne

I want to verify what "joyridin" said about the Street Beast being set up with Mustang II front suspension. (anyone else out there have one of these ?) I found a couple places on the net that sell complete sets of OEM Lower Control Arm Struts with bushings, but want to be sure before I order them (and end up with the wrong stuff) . After searching local and talking to a couple of "rod shops" in Richmond, it looks like going back with the factory struts (since it looks like "FWB's") might be the best bet for simplicity and a longer life.

mine are from Heidt's hot rod shop....i got the ones they have for coilover shocks

Mac Osborne · #16 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 12:36 PM

Ralphy/FWB, This whole deal has been a "learning experience" for me. I have an email with pictures into Aurora to see what they have for a Heim, at the same time I chased down the tip from FWB and Heidt's send me this link. Heidts Hot Rod & Muscle Car Parts - Tubular Strut Rod Kit. I guess the next step is to do some measuring and maybe post those pics for you all to look at of the control arm (size) as well as I need to check the angle and re-check the lenght of what I have now. Understand the measurment I gave above is from bolt to bolt hole and the rod on this car is mounted on the extream rear of the arm, so it is not as long as a OEM rod that would have had two holes (like the heidts) but then went thru the black metal frame bracket. ( I would give anything to have an OEM rod just to check fit, I do not hear much good about Streetbeasts, and I worry that the "correct Mustang 2 mounts , might not be correct anyway, or it may have been changed by the builder (who I have been unable to find/contact)). If nothing else, I guess this is a good test to see if I have the "stuff" to be a Cobra guy ...full time. (grin)

Ralphy · #17 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 01:26 PM

Check the welds on the frame. Also see if the boxed tubes on the frame are cappped. Those were some chassis issues. Assembly of a SB is was the big issue. Many people had a hard time putting the kit together. The manufacture also was not very prudent in shipping all the kit as some say here. If you search Cobras on line, you will find a predominant un-assemebled kits to be SB's. The welded bracket you have on the frame is similar to what I have. The strut rod inboard should be inline with the LCA I believe.

There are so many versions and parts on the MII. Forged spindles, 2" drop spindles, LCA (true A arm), shortened control A arms, bagged, coilover, OEM spring. The MII is the most reproduced geometry out there. They are even putting them on GM chassis and others. MII rack as well.

Mustang II IFS front suspension, Hub to Hub IFS, tubular control arms, crossmembers

Mac Osborne · #18 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 02:33 PM

Thanks Ralphy, I am going to take this info (and the others ideas) and have a meeting with my friend/owner tomorrow in the shop to see what he wants to do (it is his $). If it was mine, I would want it to be "track ready for VIR " and would look at redoing the entire front, but again, it is his money. I also reached out again to the "builder" and left a third voice mail, because I would love to know what is on the car now (brand/type/etc) not to mention what the 4 idiot lights on the dash are for. (since one of them was ON the other day and now it is off and I have no earthly idea what it means). I would like to get the bottom taken care of before I get out the circurt tracing equipment to track what the red light was on for. (grin) Nothing like having a custom built car with no idea who built it out of what and what is in that big block 429/513, and how old the entire build is. (one of the pictures in the small build book that was in the car says 1994 and that is a fair amount of age on a car that has been thru at least 3-4 people in that time period) But in the build pictures, you can clearly see those gold struts in a couple of pictures.

FWB · #19 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Osborne

Ralphy/FWB, This whole deal has been a "learning experience" for me. I have an email with pictures into Aurora to see what they have for a Heim, at the same time I chased down the tip from FWB and Heidt's send me this link. Heidts Hot Rod & Muscle Car Parts - Tubular Strut Rod Kit. I guess the next step is to do some measuring and maybe post those pics for you all to look at of the control arm (size) as well as I need to check the angle and re-check the lenght of what I have now. Understand the measurment I gave above is from bolt to bolt hole and the rod on this car is mounted on the extream rear of the arm, so it is not as long as a OEM rod that would have had two holes (like the heidts) but then went thru the black metal frame bracket. ( I would give anything to have an OEM rod just to check fit, I do not hear much good about Streetbeasts, and I worry that the "correct Mustang 2 mounts , might not be correct anyway, or it may have been changed by the builder (who I have been unable to find/contact)). If nothing else, I guess this is a good test to see if I have the "stuff" to be a Cobra guy ...full time. (grin)

they are mustang II lower control arms....definitely...

the strut rod is the question.

you will need to measure from the centerline of the lower control arm straight back on the frame rail to the mount for the strut rod. this will ensure your determination of what strut rod to get. mustang, pinto and granada all look very similar but their angles are different.

i have a used set of pinto rods here, and one NOS mustang rod. i kinda doubt they used the granada rod. only kellison seems to have used those.

the Heidt's stuff is nice i am pleased with mine, i went from factory ford stamped arms to the heidt's......take a look at their wilwood brakes for the mustand spindles, it uses 11" rotors(granada type)

Fred

joyridin' · #20 (**permalink**) 03-06-2012, 03:27 PM

They are not Pinto or Granada. They are M2. The original assembly manual was designed to take a M2 and bolt on all the parts. Whether the original strut rods will work with the lower control arms you have is another issue. Since most of these items were designed to interchange, the assumption would be they fit without a problem.

The set-up as far as how the brackets look are the same as was on my CMC. Most of the issues with mounts being out of location were directed toward the rear. I've never heard of anybody having a front end issue. For some reason, the rear upper control arm mounts were off location and caused a bind at certain angles on certain cars. The chassis wasn't as big of an issue as the body. Lots of twists in the fiberglass on the right rear.