351W Engine

[OhBuoy]

Could anyone tell me if this engine is worth anything? I am told that it is a stock engine with stock horsepower. What might that be? Is this something that I could add the appropriate parts to and get going, and then add to later? Could I expect decent performance in Auto-X with this motor. I am just building the kit now, and have never Auto-Xd before, but want to try with my kit, so if it is not 400 HP to start, it probably does not matter. I just don't want something with no acceleration to be found.

Would adding the appropriate parts be something that a little less than a shadetree mechanic could perform?

I appreciate any input.

351 Engine on eBay

BTW, Engines direct has these for sale all of the time, and I can get one for the $1000 without going to the auction, so if it is a good deal for someone, go ahead and bid away.

[Jack21]

A lot of folks are using 351W's with great, to phenominal results.

Motor is good for 375 - 475 HP depending on what you do to it, and it's about half the weight of an FE motor. Better for cornering and braking.

The only thing you'll retain from the motor will be the block, front timing cover, rods (maybe) and crank if you don't stroke it. Rather than buying a complete motor (don't pay over $200 if you do), tell the shop that builds it for you to furnish the core. 351W cores are around $100 - $150. If you do buy a motor or rebuildable core, try to get a pre-'75 for easier emissions when you get it on the street.

There's a zillion posts in here on 351W building, but I'll give you some spec's if you want. Mine runs great. Only regret is not adding 393 stroker.

[Cal Metal]

Oh Buoy:

Regardless of the virtues of the 351W, if you plan on AutoX, concentrate your efforts and time on maximizing your braking capabilities. Make sure that set up is your premier objection. Power is not the issue if that is the kind of racing you want to do. At most of the AutoX I attend, even without handicapping, it is the Neon ACRs, Acura Integras, Subaru WRXs that finish at the top of the pack. Their braking and handling is superb and the Neons only run 150 hp. I have seen these cars beat the Z06 and Grand Sport Corvettes in regional competition. All in the handling and brakes.

[poorboy]

Ohbuoy;
The engine up for auction has no oil pan, valve covers, timing cover, harmonic balancer, intake manifold, distribtor, oil pick up screen, and all the assorted nuts & bolts to assemble it. If you like or want to do alot of it yourself, find a complete engine and do the tear down yourself and save all the nuts & bolts. Even if you are going to buy a bolt kit they some times don't come with all that you might need. Nothing liking building your own engine.

Poorboy

[Jack21]

If you're going to buy a rebuildable core, your local auto salvage yards, or Want Advertizer should locate one for you locally. 351W's are plentyful.

Brakes for this kind of use? Check out Baer brakes website, or get a copy of their catalog. They advertize in all the major publications.

[Sonny]

OhBouy,
I've seen "streetable" (sluggish on torque side) 351W's spin 600hp plus on the dyno. You can pick up good "cut-outs" in SE Texas for $350-600 bucks that run and have all the parts. If you don't have the history on the unit it should be totally rebuilt due to age among other reasons. Remember a 460 built up will out torque most everything on the AutoX course especially high HP small blockshparts. They are also lighter than 351C's and the stock 427FE engines along with being very inexpensive to build and maintain. Those "cut-outs" are on the line of $800-1200 as a running unit.

sonny

[Brad Pfeifer]

Ohbouy,

According to groups like PAW and Probe, better than 50% of the 351W blocks they seeare unusable. This is not to infer that the 351W is a bad engine, just that many of the ones that are available arein bad condition.

I would recommend that you buy the engine from a reputable builder that has had the block magnafluxed and sonic tested. Both PAW and Probe will sell you a block that has been tested.

Finally, buying off of eBay is OK but it is the ultimate state of 'caveat emptor'. You can't see what you are buying, and when it arrives, its yours. If you are buying the engine out of state, the shipping costs alone could cost more than what you could find one locally for.

Brad

[Rogers Anderson]

ohboy
i'm building my second cobra and will put a 351w in it also.
I had one built from scratch and since then I can buy a crate one for about the same cost. My first is all roller but I scrimped on the heads, robbing me of 50-75 hp's. This one will be a dyno'd 400+. I have learned the first 351w only has 325-330 hp's at best I can always fork out 1,300 dollars to get to 400 later.

[Toivo]

Originally posted by Jack21
... and it's about half the weight of an FE motor. Better for cornering and braking.
...

I don't agree with this statement. What is the weight of an all-there 351W. An FE with AL heads and intake is right at 500 lbs.

Originally posted by Sonny
... They are also lighter than 351C's and the stock 427FE engines along with being very inexpensive to build and maintain.
...

and while this might technically be true of a 'stock' 427, given the rampant use of aluminum by most in this forum, I think the 427 comes up lightest. It's not known as a 'thin-wall' casting for nothing.

I definitely agree that the Windsor is the way to go for inexpensive build and build-up. 427's are at the top of the scale with regards to cost/horsepower nowadays and if you're seriously racing, you'll be breaking/using up parts that'll need fixing or replacing.

JMO

[CCX33911]

Originally posted by Jack21
Motor is good for 375 - 475 HP depending on what you do to it, and it's about half the weight of an FE motor.

The FE you see here:
http://members.home.net/g.p.gibbs/

with alum intake, heads (19 lb each), alternator, water pump and heavy steel canton 7 qt pan, thick FPP shaft mounted roller rockers, etc. weighs just over 500 lb (503 to be exact). I don't think you can build a 351 anywhere near 250 lb.
Although I have never put one on the scales, I would expect a 351W with cast iron block and aluminum for intake, heads, water pump and the like to weigh over 400 lb. This equates to roughly a 100 lb difference.

The 351 is certainly a great motor and can be a cost effective (hp per dollar) solution.

The lowest HP version of the 427 ever produced for a car was rated at 410 HP.

[Jack21]

The older 351W's as they came from Ford were nothing you'd want to put in a Cobra. They're not called Fords' Truck & Boat motor for nothing. As a base block for a motor using todays components, it's an entirely different story. The popularity of the 302/5.0, and the interchangability of some of the 302's parts onto the 351W have resurected the stodgy old Windsor from its' Boat Anchor status.

You want a good core block, and not much more. $ 100 - $200 is all you want to spend here because all you'll be using is the block and front timing cover.

You could re-use the rods. They're forged and OK for a street motor if you recondition them. Weigh the cost of the reconditioning, vs already reconditioned Stage II rods, vs new aftermarket forgings. How much time will your engine spend between 6000 - 7000 RPM will determine your choice.

You could re-use the crank if you want to leave it stock displacement. A 393 stroker crank will add $450 - $550 to your build cost. The stroker uses the stock rods, and you need a set of pistons anyway.

Pistons, forged or hypereutectic cast (specifically Keith Black pistons made by United Machine, NOT OEM replacements). The KB's will make a better street motor. Forged tilts the scale toward abuse resistance. Both have specific pistons for strokers.

Have your machining done by a competent engine shop, and ask the machinist for his recommendation on components. You might be surprised at some of the recommendations that vary dramatically from the advertizing hype. I was. One was, "Don't use aluminum rocker arms on a street motor." Be prepared to answer this one question as truthfully as you can. "How do you intend to drive the car?" How much do you expect your driving habits to change from whatever you're driving now?

Food for thought. This little car is quick and nimble, and I do tend to drive it more "Spiritedly" than the family grocery getter as you will. The engine powerband is definately 3000 - 6000 RPM, but most of the driving is off idle - 3000 RPM, with 2500 RPM highway cruise. (So, in retrospect, I could have used a few more cubic inches, and a little less cam)

[Great Asp]

My suggestion, ride in different cars with different engines. The sound, the power, and the way the engine works through the RPM range is different for different arrangements.

A 351W stroker makes a high pitch sound than a "straight" 351W, and runs up the RPMs faster. But the stroker can make the car more "herky jerky" in low RPM's (my experiance), while the straight 351W is easier to drive. I know a guy with a 460 stroked to 527 in his SPF. Plenty of horsepower. "how much is enough?"

When I went to the DVSF, I saw and heard lots of different engines. What you like based on what you see will be a good way to make sure you will be happy.

While at the Run and Gun, saw the high end of engines, and saw some guys with 350 HP. You know what, they did not do bad either. I have 400 HP (flywheel)on my straight 351W. I'm happy. But I did see these ARAO heads the other day.....hummmmm 100 more ponies????

Good Luck

Great Asp