shifting through the gears

frankym · #1 (**permalink**) 10-22-2001, 12:50 PM

I am having a bit of difficulty making quick shifts when really getting on it, the move from 1st to 2nd and on takes about 1/4 of a second to finally get it into the next gear. This is a BW T-10 sideloader 4 speed with ford 427. I have replaced the clutch slave with the pull type wildwood. I have had problems with the clutch engaging to close to the floor and have since adjusted the slave by securing it better to the frame but as the car heats up, it still engages closer to the floor. Not sure if my problem racing is a function of the slave not pulling far enough to get throught the gears or if has to to with synchronization. I would like to be able to shift it within a split second but there is a huge lag between the gears on the quarter mile strip.

this is a centerforce multi-spline race clutch. I don't know a whole lot more than what I have described.

JAM1775 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-23-2001, 07:12 AM

Once you have worked out any mechanicla barriers like linkage adjustment/synchros....in my experience the only two things that enabled me to shift faster (we never shift fast enough!) was a short throw aftermarket shifter like Hurst, B&M, Pro 5.0 etc and seat time.
Throw the gears at a light, in your garage etc until you are not looking for any of them ...they are just there by instinct.
I had a notchy 2-3 feeling in my old toploader but even those become minimal diverson with practice. That is what worked for me but I sure wish I could move faster! Old/slow

Cal Metal · #3 (**permalink**) 10-23-2001, 07:53 AM

Frankym:

If this is a non Super T-10 Warner and the old style T-10, unfortunately, the transmission is probably not going to take the punishment from a FE block over the long pull. Chevrolet dropped the T-10 in mid '63 EVEN before they introduced the Big Block series. Ford dumped it in '64 and never used it thereafter in their FE motors. The long term problems with the T-10 that most people experience is that it will eventiually grind going into second and will pop out of third gear on deceleration. They worked well in the Cobras with the SB in road racing application, but as a straight line transmission they are not very sturdy. The Muncie, which replaced it in GM performance cars, is nothing more than the T-10 with bigger gears, synchros, etc. The T-10 is probably on a par with the Tremec T-5. An OK transmission but has limits when hooked up with a big engine.

Regarding the problem at hand, if linkage/shifter can be ruled out, look at the 2nd gear synchro assembly. Sometimes the inserts (I call them dogs) that are contained around the synchro hub (there are three of them) can break (it is ususally just one that will) which will hinder shifting and can cause a grind since the hub is now cocked to one side.

frankym · #4 (**permalink**) 10-23-2001, 08:46 AM

wow, I really came to the right place, I find that the suggestions I get on this forum, which very oftern go beyond my level of understanding and comfort level, are really helpful to print and give to a mechanic. Most mechanics out there simply don'e deal with these types of issues because newer cars don't have these types of problems anymore. Thanks again, I genuiniely appreciate the help.

Cal Metal · #5 (**permalink**) 10-23-2001, 09:33 AM

Frankym:

I didn't want to be the bearer of bad news. I don't like that role but thought you should know. That is what the forum is all about. Interestingly I was talking today to a friend of Bill Parham of SA who make a number of FE motors for the Cobra industry. He built a fairly radical FE for his Cobra and threw in a T-10 he had laying around. It lasted about three miles according to my friend who put the tranny in for him. When they took it out they couldn't even turn the input shaft. My friend wasn't peeved but he said that he knew it wouldn't work and it meant doing an initial installation and then an R & R with a Ford Toploader. No problems since.

frankym · #6 (**permalink**) 10-23-2001, 10:36 AM

not a problem, the side loader is just not built for lots of torque, i didn't choose the tranny, it was already there when i bought the car. i have heard that the bigger problem is not that it doesn't wear well, but that the linkage has been known to bust up and scatter through the floor of the car, talked to a guy that had pieces of the linkage fly into his knee!!

Cal Metal · #7 (**permalink**) 10-23-2001, 01:12 PM

The advantage of the Toploaders is that the shifting rails slide through bosses cast internally in the case, as do the shifting cams. A little more trouble to assemble, with the variety of springs and detents that have to be installed, but it does do a good job of shifting and keeping things together. If you decide to eventually go the TL route, give David Kee a call. He can be found under the talk forums.