hot starting problems

Dan Stryffeler · #1 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 08:26 AM

Usually after shutting off the engine, and only waiting about 10-15 minutes before starting it again... I've had a lot of difficulty starting again; the battery seems to be really pulled down. If I get a push start or jump, the ammeter shows about 30 amps for the first 10 minutes or so and then goes down to about 5-10amps. If I wait about an hour... everything usually is OK.

The battery is located in the trunk, with about a 3 ft connection to the frame; engine is well grounded... both +/- cables are heavy duty.

Is this a electrical problem, or is the starter overheating from the headers? Help!!!!

wadesdad · #2 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 09:26 AM

The first place I'd look is timing. It is also the easiest thing to check. Loosen your distributor hold-down and back off the timing slightly then hit the key. If it bogs down more, you're turning the wrong direction. You should only turn it slightly either way. If this is the problem, the idle will probably change slightly too.

If this does nothing to help, take a look at the starter. They can act as a heat sink. The heat wreaks havoc with bad windings. In this weather, however, it is not a likely culprit.

Let me know if I can help. I'll be happy to swing by.

-Steve Boardman

Dan Stryffeler · #3 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 09:40 AM

Hey Steve,

Sorry, the problem is not that the car won't light... it will barely crank; just a couple'o burps, then nothing for a couple seconds, then it fires up or not at all.

I did wrap a heat blanket/shield around the starter, but it wasn't any help.

Thanks,

Dan

Andy Dunn · #4 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 10:24 AM

you might take a look at the hotshot and hotshot plus from painlesswiring. Here is what they write: Designed to overcome starting problems due to an overheated GM style starter or worn out electrical system. Works by boosting amperage to the starter solenoid. Easy to install

http://www.painlesswiring.com/relays.htm

JIM GALLO · #5 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 10:24 AM

DAN, if the problem just started, check all connections and cables.
If you have always had a problem ( like at Berea) check batt cable size. #2 ga is the minimum for trunk mounted battery. Bigger is always better in battery cables. For 2 years I had a hot start problem, great when cold but hot it was just like timing was advanced. Put a 2 ga instead of the 4 ga from solenoid to starter and it spins like like factory when hot. Also I used the old 4 ga cable for a dupe ground to the starter mounting bolt. Why toss it in the parts pile?
How is the switch from leaf to IRS coming along?

Dan Stryffeler · #6 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 11:56 AM

Andy,

Thanks for the tip... will look up the website after work. It does seem as if just an extra kick would crank the engine. A little concerned in how much the battery gets pulled down though. Any experience with Optima's battery? I have a Exide(?) 'Nascar' now, only 850 amps.

Jim,

I do have 2ga wire throughout... good idea about the secondary ground to the starter bolt. I dropped the car off at C&M Performance the day after Thanksgiving. They will start on it late December/early January. I' m really gonna contribute to the economy on this one. Did pick up the 4 link/coil over conversion kit and front tubular/coil over kit. Also shortening rear axles, about 20 more things on the wish list. But this starting thing is getting embarassing.

Dan

JIM GALLO · #7 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 01:17 PM

Dan, see you are looking at the battery as a possible source of trouble. I have a small amp hour battery from WAL-Mart. After changing cable, NO problems. My engine started out with 10.5 to 1 compression per factory specs and I cut the heads another .010 to true them up ( 1969 big valve heads ) and the battery has no problem.

Glad to see you are supporting C & M. I was there for their open house. Talked to Chuck Rego about installing twin Factory Five roll bars. He seemed distracted, as thou he really was not interested so I did not pursue the matter. Everything I saw there was first class. The coupe they had there sure interests me.

427sharpe · #8 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 03:55 PM

When you try to crank the motor, do the cables get hot?? If so, go to larger gage cables, at least a '00''. Make sure a connections are metal to metal (no paint). Last resort, go to a bigger CCA battery, a dry cell is very nice.

Don · #9 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 04:58 PM

To resolve the starting problems when the engine was hot on a 351W, a MSD 8584 distributor, $189, and high performance starter, 820055, $159, were installed. Already had the MSD 6A ignition. Purchased from Summit. Since the distributor and starter were installed at the same time, not sure if the fix came from both changes or just one. The MSD distributor, via a variety of different combinations of bushings and springs , offered a number of alternatives in setting the timing and advance.

Dan Stryffeler · #10 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 08:26 PM

Thanks for all the advice guys!

I'll have the body off in the next couple weeks... will double check cable size and connections at that time and run new stuff if necessary (along with secondary ground wire to the starter). I have never checked to see if the cables got hot... it seems that just about everything under the hood does.

If all that is OK, will look at the higher performance starter and 'hotshot' adapter.

Thanks again,

Dan

Roscoe · #11 (**permalink**) 12-07-2001, 11:10 PM

I'm running a 351W with 10:1, MSD Digital 6plus and distributor. Hitachi type hi torque starter. Rear mounted Optima with #1 gauge cable.

Now the Digital 6 has a built in 20 degree start retard also.

I have never had a problem with starting the motor at any time. Do not know which component, or combination thereof, contributes to this.

Roscoe

poorboy · #12 (**permalink**) 12-08-2001, 09:30 AM

Dan;

The best cure we have found for the hard to start when hot, after everything has been checked. Install a gear reduction starter.

Poorboy

Don · #13 (**permalink**) 12-08-2001, 02:18 PM

Dan

The starter I mentioned earlier, # SUM-820055 for a 351W is the Summit brand. It looks, feels, adjusts, sounds "similar" to a Tilton. Not the expert, but if there is a difference, I was not able to determine what it is. Might be someone else knows who makes these starters for Summit

Dan Stryffeler · #14 (**permalink**) 12-10-2001, 07:50 AM

Thanks again for all the advice. Took a look at the Summit,
(sum-820055) starter yesterday, that may solve the problem. I'm a little concerned about clearance with the oil pan... although the starter has a lot of adjustability; won't really be able to tell until I get the body back off in a couple weeks. I'm starting to think that I have just fried this (rebulit/stock) starter over the last year or two; either it wasn't grounded well enough and/or just couldn't crank the higher compression engine... especially when it was hot.

Dan