Still FRICKIN Hot.... what about Aluminium Radiators

[Clois Harlan]

What experience does anyone have with using an aluminum radiator with a big block Ford (428 CJ).

I am still having heating problems, my water temp wants to go out of sight. I switched to Edelbrock alum heads and water pump. I have a four core B&B radiator that checked out fine. I have replaced two thermostats and berped all the air out of the system at the manifold I have ordered a 2400 cfm fan to replace my other fan and am considering ordering a two row aluminium radiator. Running out of money and patience. Basically, just damn pi__ed off right now. Anyone have any thoughts on my delima?

[CobraEd]

Did it always do this? how long does it take to get hot? You don't have that infamous head gasket problem again do you?

There are products on the market that can help such as red Line "Water Wetter" and Pro-Blend "40 Below"

Ed

[Clois Harlan]

I replaced the head gaskets and was very careful to make sure the pasenger side was on correctly. I am using Water Wetter in a 50% antifreeze mix.

After starting the car it takes about 8 - 10 minutes for the temp to go from cold starting temp to 200 degrees and continues to climb. I have replaced the water temp gauge and sending unit and used a hand held thermometer to varify the temp. I have tried this with and without a thermostat. I have also found in the past that the temps will continue to rise without a thermostat but I was wanting to see circulation, which it had. When I took my radiator off and sent it to be checked out at the rad shop I really expected my rad to be stopped up somewhere....no such luck.
My high dollar electric fan will be in tomorrow and I will see what that does for this situation.

I wonder if my high flow water pump is not allowing my radiator to work effectively, I also have March pulley's. Just because they are pretty.

[Bob Putnam]

Clois,

Does the temperature continue to rise even when you're going over 30 mph, or is this happening just when stationary?

[CobraEd]

What type of fan do you have now?

Is it shrouded?

Is it mounted within about 1/2" from the radiator?

Does it come on at what appears to be the right temp?

Do both the upper and lower radiator hoses get hot?

Is it possible somehow that due to your pulley configuration, your turning the pump backwards?

Can you look into the radiator and see a good strong flow?



Hang in there, you've got the best minds in the industry thinking about this (US)

Ed

[jayscobras]

CLOIS, WATER WETTER AND OTHER COOLANTS REALLY DON'T WORK WELL WITH ANY MORE THAN MAYBE 15-20% ANTIFREEZE. YOU ALSO MIGHT WANT TO TRY INGLESE COOL FLEX HOSING. IT IS LIKE ADDING MORE RADIATOR AREA AND I DISSIPATES HEAT UNLIKE RUBBER HOSES.

ALSO I DON'T REMEMBER, ARE YOU RUNNING A 180 THERMOSTAT. THAT'S ABOUT THE BEST FOR THE 428. ANOTHER THING IS THE ALTERNATOR...BEATS ME BUT I HAVE ALWAYS FOUND THAT A HIGHER AMP ALTERNATOR FOR SOME REASON MAKES A DIFFERENCE...GO FIGURE

RUN THE CAR A LITTLE RICHER OR USE HIGHER GRADE GAS SUCH AS A 100 OR 104 OCTANE MIX WITH PREMIUM. HIGHER WEIGHT OIL SUCH AS 10W40 ALSO MAY HELP.

GOOD LUCK!!!
JAY

[dalola]

Clois,

If you don't subject your Cobra to freezing temps, get rid of the antifreeze all together, and run the Water wetter with straight distilled water. Antifreeze reduces it's effectiveness considerably. If you do need some freezing protection, use the minimum amount of antifreeze to your desired temp. protection.

Is your heat problem only when not moving(ie: low speed, city driving, etc), or is it regardless of driving condition? If it's the prior, most likely it's an airflow and/or capacity problem. An aluminum radiator will help considerably, along with a high volume puller fan.

Is the engine of a known source of tune? Proper timing? Proper octane for your compression ratio? Lots of variables here. How high has the temp actually reached? 200 is not so bad. Does it level off somewhere? Does it come down when you increase vehicle speed? This is all valuable troubleshooting info.

First off, try the aluminum radiator, higher capacity fan, and Water Wetter with straight water. Re-evaluate from there.

Good luck,
Dave

[CobraEd]

Jay has a good point about the mixture, Is the engine running too lean (check the plugs) or too retarded? Both of these conditions can make the engine run very very hot internally and the cooling system has to work way harder to compensate.

[CobraEd]

Still thinking, . . . . . Maybe you are expecting too much. If you run a 180 thermostat, all that does is set the MINIMUM temperature that the engine will run at. The electric fans are usually set to kick on at 200-220 an back off again when the temp drops to around 190-200. The fan must always be set noticably higher than 180, or the fan will constantly run trying to cool the engine, while the thermostat is trying to keep it hot.

So . . . If the thermostat is a 180, the the fan should come on at 200-220 ond off at 190-200. Maybe everything is alright and you are ok.

My fan will kick on at about 220 and off at about 190 if I am not moving (idling) or am stuck in traffic. But when moving with a constant flow of air, the fan never comes on and the temp is held to 180 by the thermostat.

Ed

[Hotfingrs]

Check your pulley diameter on the crank and water pump. You want the pump to be overdriven or you won't get enough flow. Also Check and make sure you got the right pump for the rotation of the engine....

[Charlton]

I was having the same problems with my 428. I tried everything suggested above. At one point, I disconnected my heater hose and it was dry. I plugged both hose ports at the manifold and waterpump and my engine ran fine.

[Cobrabill]

I'm running the Edelbrock waterpump,160 stat&March pulley.In So Cal,it would cool the motor to the point of excess.Here in Tucson,i stay below 210 in traffic.(the fans come on at 205)Last part of the equation is the radiator is an aluminum one from a V-12 BMW.


It's a dry heat-really!

[CobraEd]

This seems to be a common thig with 428s. Here is the same problem from someone else I found on the Internet.

__________________________________________________

Hi All,
Got a major problem and thought someone might have the knowledge to
help. My 69 Mach 1, 428 CJ which I bought last year has been giving me
fits with overheating. If I drive a mile, the gauge peaks past the red
line. I have replaced the water pump, clutch fan and thermostat, and had
the radiator flushed (they said it looked good). If I pull the
thermostat, it will stay in the upper portion of the gauge a little
below the red line but can still get pretty close to overheating at
times. I used a temp probe gauge to check the temps of both heads. I
probed just above each exhaust port on all cylinders. The left side all
ran between 210 and 220 degrees. But the right side ran beween 260 and
280 degrees. I had read where the head gaskets have been accidently
placed backwards and have cut off the water flow through the head. I
thought this might have been the problem with the right head. I just
pulled the intake manifold and right head. The gasket is on correctly
and I don't really see a problem with the head or gasket. Can anyone
help me? I'm at a loss and don't want to put it back together until I
can figure out what the problem is. The weather is getting nice and I'm
getting anxious! Thanks in advance.

[Clois Harlan]

To answer a few questions:


I have been reluctant to get the car much past the neighborhood in fact since this latest problem I don't think I have gone 30 mph.

I am using standard March Alum pulleys. My thermostat is a 180 degree w/ a 1/4" hole drilled in the top corner. My old fan was only about 800-900 cfm and runs all the time. I only used one gallon of antifreeze to my mixture so I figure it was about 50-50.

The temp here last weekend was in the mid 70's and most of my problems came while I was still in the garage. May be the combination of not moving forward and a small inadequate fan is causing my problem. But within 10 minutes my temperature was past 220 degrees.

Hopefully, the fan will do the trick. I am also going to pull my water pump back off and check it for debris etc as well as my engine ports. This is probably something very small but I know come July when it is 95 degrees I don't want to be caught on the side of the road wishing I had done something else.

[jayscobras]

CLOIS, IF MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECT, YOU NEED ABOUT 1,200 TO 1,400 CFM ON THAT TYPE SET UP. IF THAT DOESN'T WORK LET ME KNOW AND I'LL RUN UP THERE AND SEE IF I CAN HELP.

I DO SUGGEST THAT YOU MAY ALSO TRY DRAINING ALL THE WATER AND ANTIFREEZE OUT EXCEPT FOR WHATS IN THE BLOCK AND THEN REFILL. I REALLY LIKE PURPLE ICE INSTEAD OF WATER WETTER. IT IS FOR SALE AT MOST NAPA STORES OR I CAN SEND YOU SOME FROM HERE. IT'S MADE BY ROYAL PURPLE, THE SYNTHETIC OIL THAT I USE IN ALL MY CARS.

LET US KNOW HOW IT COMES OUT.

JAY

[Clois Harlan]

Jay,

Thanks for your offer. Tonight I intend to get all the water out of the block with my air hose. Heck I might just pull those heads off again and blow all the water jackets out. But when the new fan comes in tomorrow I will be ready.

[Toivo]

Do you have heater/defroster hoses hooked up?

If so, does turning on the defrosters moderate the temperature of the engine at all. It should help. If it doesn't, then look at the heater core and heater hoses. Also, obvious point, your exhaust isn't blocked/plugged/restricted in any way?

[Zderf]

Just a couple thoughts here.

1. Do you have an expansion tank?

If yes, is it the high point of your cooling system?

Is this where you bled the air with the radiator cap off?

Does the temperature of the coolant in the expansion tank rise as quickly as that of your temperature sender (mounted on the intake I suppose)? How about the inlet and discharge hoses on the radiator... are they that hot as quickly as your temp indicator?

Where I'm going with this is two fold. It is harder and takes longer to bleed the air out of the system than one might think, and your problem sounds like air to me. Second, I wonder if you have a blockage somewhere that is restricting flow from the water pump discharge (gasket? block?), or back to the tank and radiator.

2. I would comment on the suggested coolant mixture. Always run at least 5% antifreeze for its rust and corrosion protection, I run 10%. Use distilled or de-ionized water for the rest of the volume. I agree with Jay, Purple Ice has worked best for me.

I feel your pain. Been there, and finally found the right mix of things (expansion tank, Edelbrock high flow pump with underdrive, coolant mixture, 3 fans). Ahhh, it felt good.

Best of luck to you!!!

Zderf

[Richard Hudgins]

Originally posted by Clois Harlan
What experience does anyone have with using an aluminum radiator with a big block Ford (428 CJ).

I am still having heating problems, my water temp wants to go out of sight. I switched to Edelbrock alum heads and water pump. I have a four core B&B radiator that checked out fine. I have replaced two thermostats and berped all the air out of the system at the manifold I have ordered a 2400 cfm fan to replace my other fan and am considering ordering a two row aluminium radiator. Running out of money and patience. Basically, just damn pi__ed off right now. Anyone have any thoughts on my delima?

Hi Clois,

One thing to consider about alloy(aluminum) radiators and Copper units. The copper radiator will have a better heat transfer rate then the Alloy unit.

We use alloy units in all of the JBL cars as they are much easier to have fabricated by various vendors in the size and shape that we use. If I could get a copper unit made at a reasonable cost, that is what we would use.

Therefore, If your current radiator has enough surface area to provide the required heat transfer, a alloy unit with the same surface area will not improve your cooling and will in fact be a bit worse.

I would look to other problems in the system.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Clois;

Your electric fan is defanitely too small.I had the same basic problem with my 351-W in my 65 Fastback. My cure was to go back to stock type pulleys,and a larger ????electric fan in the rear (got off a wrecked Caddy I think) and a 1000cfm pusher in the front. Checked with one of the companys that make high volume aluminum water pumps and they recommended that your water pump and crank pulleys be at least the same diameter if you are having heating problems. I also run a 19x26 aluminum radiator. With the under drive pulleys she still ran hot in parades,when I took off the crank pulley and put back on the stock one she now runs 180-190 in parades and 180 on the highway no matter the outside temp. I'm running a 180 thermostat....On the highway the electric fans never come on as long as I'm moving 30 mph or more.Just the air flow is enough to keep the temp at 180...

I would go to a stock size crank pulley and a better electric fan,at least 1400 cfm as minimum and possible a 12-14 inch diameter pusher in front for added help.

Do not know what size radiator you have but I would say a 19 x 26 as minimum also.

Hope this helps.......

David