Autometer TRI-ALERT

[justa6]

Thought I'd pass this along for anyone interested.

Autometer makes a device that IMO is amazing. I just finished installing it tonight.

Because my motor uses a dry sump oiling system I've been concerned with the Cog belt coming off the Weaver oil pump.

Catching the pressure falling is not going to happen and so I thought I'd come up with an Idiot light but the pressures on most are far too low, again IMO. By the time the light turns on (at around 10psi) the motor could be toast. Anyway, I called Autometer to see if they had anything higher. The guy told me we have something WAY better.

Here's the deal, IF you have electic gauges (not necessarily Autometer) you connect a small box to up to THREE gauges. I used Oil Pressure, Water Temp, and Oil Temp. When you hook it up you have to "adjust" the pointer number you want the alarm to sound at (I used a light and a horn) so I set the oil pressure at 50 psi which is below idle pressure with the engine hot. Set the water temp at 230 and the oil temp the same. After you adjust the screws that control the gauges you then flip a switch for each gauge that tells the Tri alert to sound either if the gauge goes above or below your setting. ie oil pressure is a below the set point alarm. The two temp settings would be above their set point.

Finished the setting up procedure. Pretty simple. And put everything back together. I used a lighted Rocker switch and a Piezo siren for the alarms. The rocker switch will shut the system on and off for engine start as an example. Once the engine is started and the oil pressure goes above 50 psi flip the rocker switch on and "Its watching" your instruments for you.

Price is right around 70 dollars which IMO is one of the best deals
around.

Oh one other thing. The gauges have to be 90 degree sweep not
270 degree. I wanted to hook one on my fuel pressure gauge but its the 270 degree model. Won't work.

Let me know if you have any questions that I didn't cover. The picture below show the dry sump pump and belt. Scary huh?

Regards,

[750hp]

Well, we've entered the Twilight Zone of disappearing posts.....

I know that you and Hank Dondero have replied to this post since my last post, but as the magician says..... "POOF" and they've gone!

Care to repost?

[750hp]

Slightly closer view:

[justa6]

Boy we've lost a LOT of messages. Oh well I guess they need to experiment with the "host"...

Anyway I just got back from the track and it was packed. I can't believe how many HONDA's showed up...

The above motor is most likely a Chevy because of the rear distributor. I don't know much about Chevy V6's so your guess is as good as mine. Its definitly not a Buick because (I believe) they always had front distributors on theirs.

Back to the track. Good news and less than good news.

Still ran a best ET of 10.8, bad news was MPH was down to 122 but the reason is (I think) that we had fuel delivery problems as in "Lack of". So we kept increasing jet sizes trying to richen it up when it was simply low fuel pressure and that was ALL the fuel it was going to get no matter how big the jets were. So by fixing the fuel pressure problem (big vent and big pump) we are now VERY rich (Black soot rich). But the GOOD news is the car ran a 60' time of 1.48 and an 1/8 mile of 6.8 at 101. All in all a good day car will do better AND didn't have any problems. Oil temp 150 after the run and 100psi oil pressure at 7400 RPM through the traps. Life was good today... Oh I down loaded a picture of my engine from the same perspective as the above so you can compare them.

Regards,

[750hp]

How right you are - I'm WAY off! Sorry to waste your time with my "Buick" ramblings I can pick the difference between a Windsor and a Cleveland Ford V8 though, does that count

There's a massive difference in the port locations and cylinder head bolt patterns, isn't there! The headers running to the turbos on that motor wree made out of some obscure metal, and cost $6,000-USD alone.... Now that he's not using the motor in a Sprint Car, the pipes are basically useless - OUCH!

1.48 60' time is hooking up well. What gearbox and tyre size are you running? Anyway, I'm still drooling over the LA Ent / Oliver combo!!!

See you,
Craig

[RICK LAKE]

Hi Bob Nice dry sump system you have. I am not sure how you are going to put that Vacuum Tank over your hood. What pump is that? It looks like a 3 stage. I want to get a 3 stage with a P/S pump no the back side. Motor looks great. Where did that blue bottle go to? Keep going, and pretty soon you will need a nascar cert. to race that car. Rick Lake

[750hp]

Rick, I was concentrating so hard on his motor that I totally missed the blue bottle in the background. No power adder....hehe Geez Justa6, must be some toys in your household

[justa6]

The forum finally seems to be stabilizing and not dropping replies.

First, Craig If you like LA/Oliver you should see the Jesel Rocker Arms. I wish they made clear valve covers. They are like little works of art. I really lucked out with this motor. I picked it up with very little time on it for 3500.00. I went through it and replaced the bronze lifter bushings with steel, rebuilt the Isky lifters, sent the Weaver pump to Weaver to make it from a 4 stage to a 3 stage and that was pretty much it. Oh had the rods magnufluxed.

Dyno time cost some bucks but thought it was better to break it in on the Dyno. Its got NO NITROUS on it. The bottle Rick is talking about is going on Rob JR's 66 427 Corvette. When he lost "big time" to my Grand National Buick he had to do "something"

Trans is a Tremec, tires Mickey Thompson ET STREETS 26/8. Going to go to 28/10's though. Street tires are BFG KD's 17".

Rick I've never heard of running a power steering pump off the dry sump pump but It sounds like a good idea. Are the Nascar guys doing that? Also Craig, tell us about your "mild" 398 blown/Intercooled toy. Mine is VERY mild compared to that. You too Rick a blown big block...What other tricks do you have up your sleeve(s). I think the 3 of us would enjoy getting together and trying to think up more crazy stuff. I may have to go to a blower just to keep up though...Also how about uploading some pictures so I can see what you two are up to.

Regards to you both,

[750hp]

$3,500-
Where did you steal that from!!! WOW, now you're telling about Jesel shaft rockers and you have to torment me with how little you paid for it...
Could you give me a little history lesson here please? Is this motor the one used in the Buick GN's? Is it the same capacity? What form of racing was your motor used in or was it always going to be in a radical street car?



My motor's way down on cubes compared to Rick. I'm hoping to see his specs here also. I had mine built by R&E Racing in Cali. They dyno'd it N/Aspirated then shipped it over here. It's an SVO N-351 4 bolt block, SVO A410 3.9" forged crank, Crower billet 6.25" rods, JE 8.5:1, plasma moly C&A rings, Edlbrock Vic Jr heads with stainless 2.1" valves, tit retainers, Crower Enduro rockers, K-Motion springs, Edelbrock Super Victor carb manifold converted to EFI, Carter 15psi fuel pump feeding two "800hp" Bosch motorsport pumps out of a swirl tank, 96lb/hr injectors, 90mm throttle body, 1/2" ID rails, Motec sequential injection with traction/launch control/datalogging, Vortech YS-Trim supercharger (63000 impeller rpm@7000engine rpm = 22lb boost), Vortech Race Mondo bypass, 24"x12"x4.5" air to air intercooler, G-Force transmission coming(when I can bring myself to spend $5K+ on a gearbox...), Z-Bar 9" rear with Mumford link, 17x11" with 285/40 Yoko's. It should be a bit of fun when it's sorted out!

Rick - how about you?

[justa6]

Talking about drooling. What a beautiful sight to wake up to.

I'll say it should be a "bit" of fun when its sorted out

I LOVE stuff like this. 96lb injectors huh. That should easily support 800 horsepower. And being fuel injected is really SMART.

I was going to but my motor is an "odd" fire kind of like a Harley where the sequence isn't spaced evenly. With a 6 you have to have it odd fire OR splay the the rod journals like on a Grand National motor. The GN motors are good for around 550HP Max as the block just won't stay stable above that. The Stage II motor I have has the same outer diminsions but has 14 head studs instead of 8 and 4 bolt mains and is VERY heavy. 30 lbs heavier than the GN. I was watching a 3600 lb GN in fall. He had an Even fire Stage II and was running mid 8's. My buddy told me that the motor was a little over a thousand horsepower.

As far as the price. To build this motor from scratch would cost around 28,000. What I came across was a guy who was running it in a sprint car and crashed it while it was still pretty new, less than 40 laps. He totaled the car and got seriously hurt. He got out of racing and I purchased the motor. Because its an odd fire it can't be Injected (easily anyway) so it won't really be good for a Grand National. The good news on the odd fire is that its the only engine that I can remember the firing order of it 654321 and its stronger than the even fire as the rod journals are siamesed like a v8. Its got a very novel sound at idle. Like two Harleys sitting next to each other idling.

It was designed for NASCAR and Indy racing so it will take a LOT of horsepower. But the only way for me to go if I want to get up near what you guys are doing would be Nitrous. That would be fun but I'd rather have it run low to mid 10's on the motor (at least for now anyway

Besides I should be able to be "very competitive" at the Run & Gun in the 4/6 cylinder class...

Back to your motor, you really seem to have done a very nice job. I like your choices on everything. Good job mate...

Regards,

[Toivo]

Originally posted by justa6
Talking about drooling. What a beautiful sight to wake up to.


I was going to but my motor is an "odd" fire kind of like a Harley where the sequence isn't spaced evenly. With a 6 you have to have it odd fire OR splay the the rod journals like on a Grand National motor. The GN motors are good for around 550HP Max as the block just won't stay stable above that. The Stage II motor I have has the same outer diminsions but has 14 head studs instead of 8 and 4 bolt mains and is VERY heavy. 30 lbs heavier than the GN. I was watching a 3600 lb GN in fall. He had an Even fire Stage II and was running mid 8's. My buddy told me that the motor was a little over a thousand horsepower.

Regards,

What does it take to make it "even" fire?
Change cam and rearrange the distributor wires? $500 tops?
Or is there more involved?

Just curious.

[justa6]

No it isn't quite that easy...

The only difference is the Crank. The crank in my engine has two connecting rods on each "throw" just like a Ford or Chevy V8. Both rods run on one journal. That's why the Odd fire crank is stronger. In order to make any V6 an even fire you have to have a journal for each of the 6 rods. So they are smaller and not as strong although in my case either would do just fine. BUT I'd have to toss my LA Billet crank and Oliver rods because the rods are much different. So I'll stick with the "lumpy" idle because with the cam I've got it would be pretty lumpy anyway, just not as much.

Other than that I don't think there is any difference. I do know that most Chevy V6's are odd fire but they do make some that are even.

Bottom line is it works, once your off idle you can't tell the difference.

ODD isn't it?

Regards,

[750hp]

Bob,
The Motec that I'm using can be configured for odd or even fire motors. http://www.motec.com.au/m48pro.htm I keep hearing that Motecs are expensive in the States, but nobody actually knows a price. Over here they only cost around $2K USD, that's with the M48PRO with all the bells and whistles, AND with all sensors, AND with a wiring loom. If they're that much more expensive, I should bring a few over with me when I go to the DSVF2! I'd love to get to the Run'n'Gun also, but it's not going to happen
The 96lb injectors will hopefully still provide a reasonable idle. Let's see if the Motec can do it's job!

I'm sure that you'll give the 4&6 cyl guys something to think about. Are there any psycho little turbo Lotus 7 replicas that go to those events. A few guys around here have started putting turbocharged Suzuki Hayabusa motors in their Lotus 7s, and they're making 300hp at the wheels with an all-up vehicle weight of around 980lbs OUT OF CONTROL!

I love that firing order

[RICK LAKE]

Hi Craig. You are getting out of control 96 lb. injectors, 22 lbs of boost, 2 800 fuel pumps, SOUNDS about right. Craig can a have another Fosters and a couple more shrimp, Please. And I thought a needed help? OK heres the spec. on my motor, Shelby 427 alum. block and heads, comp cam 501-533 lift, dove single plane manifold converted to DFI, heads are C and C short block balance and blueprinted. Speed Pro sequenial brain. 55lbs injectors to start, will go up to 72 lbs when the boost goes to 15 lbs. 2 255 walpros fuel pumps in the tank, 2 # 10 areoquip lines going to y block with 1/2 inch injector rails. 1200 throttle body, 9.2 compression. engine is all alum but the crank (428 IU) cam and the timing chain. eagle rods also. A cali crank is 2600 for FE motor and 2200$ with chevy juornals minus the rods. The motor on the dyno is 328 rwhp and 422 rwtork. I had a problem with the 6-spd trans, when it got hot it would not shift. I ran the road course in 4th gear all the way. This trans is only good for 450hp and 450 torque, it will not shift under 3/4 throttle. I have a centerforce gold clutch, but when I get the G-Force trans will go to a McLeod softloc clutch for racing. Craig you had to see Bobs 6 haul'n buns racing, at R&G last year That motor is the loudest 6 banger I ever heard and rans like a big V8. Bob has an 900cfm carb on that motor, I think he forgot to tell it, your only a 6. My supercharger is a Paxton Novi. boost is only at 10 psi. due to the trans problem a have not got back to the dyno yet. Talk to you soon Rick Lake

[750hp]

Isn't it amazing how many ways you can travel to reach your desired goal!!!

Carbed odd-fire 6 cylinder.

Blown iron small block.

All alum blown big block.

I love the variety, and I'd be happy to own any of them. No anti- 6 or BB sentiments here

Rick, you have some quality parts in there!!! Can you buy Shelny heads already cnc'd, or did you send them away for that? What's a Cali crank? Is that from California - like LA Enterprise or Velasco,? Davis Salkowski raves about his McLeod Dual Disk Street Twin clutch in his 480 cube alum big block with the G-Force. I assume you have the NOVI 2000? I was undecided about the Novi2000 vs Vortech YS. I bought the Vortech after hearing good things about the blower, but most importantly because of the tech service I received from Vortech. I'm looking at the power levels that some guys are getting from their NOVIs and wondering if I made the right choice

Got any photos?

[justa6]

Geez you guys are getting awfully "trick"

I LOVE it...

We've GOT to get Craig to come to R & G. Come on Craig you can do it. After all its only half way around the planet...

OK as long as we are talking. Here is the lousy job I've got to do today. I'm pulling the motor on my Grand National Buick. Lovely job. Computer sh*t all over the place. Got a "mis-heat treated" cam from Comp and so its replace the cam and bearings time.

Car will run low 11's (3600 lbs without driver). Limit engineering Turbo, 42 lb injectors, Computer chip by John Spina (Cobra owner), etc. The GN is a love/hate kind of car. Hardest thing to work on I've ever seen. But the mustang guys tend to shy away from it on the street. Although there are some Mustang's around that will definitly go faster. The Honda guys don't even know what it is

Cobra is sitting under a sheet in the other garage as its waiting for its new windshield.

I find it hard to believe that the Cobra is actually pretty well finished (for now at least). Just a little leaner on the jets and a set of 28/10 MT's and it will go about as fast as it is capable of. Hopefully 10.5 (or better) if I can just get that 1.48 60' time down to 1.40 it will be tough for any non power adder to beat. NOT THAT IT WON'T HAPPEN Its just not going to be easy. Which WAS the plan...

Regards to all,

[750hp]

So Bob, did you get the GN apart OK? Is Comp covering any of your costs?

Oh yeah, you really should work on that 60' time too..... my best 60' time with a carb 351W was 2.15 Ran high 11 @120 ,but I couldn't bring myself to punish the T5 gearbox and Jag rearend off the startline.... Under 1.5 is AWESOME!

Run and Gun would be a lot of fun to see the variety, but we have an annual Cobra event over here that YOU guys should come to. I think there were over 100 cobras last year, and the Cobra Car Club of Australia hires a race track for the weekend. Lots of laughs/spins/post-race BS etc and I don't even have to jump in a plane to get there! There's a turbo inline 6 cylinder that always makes the annual event. He's run (I think) a mid 11 second pass. It's obviously not the radical 6 that you're running, but different nonetheless.

See you,
Craig

[justa6]

The "Get together" down under would be WONDERFUL. I've never been to Australia but will one day.

Funny you mention 60' times. There is a drag racing computer on the Internet at http://www.prestage.com/carmath/ that allows you to enter various numbers and it does the math for you.

As far as beating up the Driveline your absolutely correct that it beats the hell out of it. One of the reasons I put a Ford 9" in this car. The 9" won't handle like a IRS but it should have no problems staying together under a light car with a "mini" motor. 390 ft/lbs of torque is pretty low compared to what the "big boys" are making.

Now to the HORRIBLE Grand National engine removal. Thank GOD I've got a lift. I put it up and disconnected everthing I could get my hands on from underneath. I even took the Motor mount NUTS off so I could lift the motor up a little and slide the bolts out. Drained all the fluids so I don't leak trans fluid all over the place when I lift them out. What a pain in the *ss. I'm going to use a Billet Comp cam but have to change the timing chain to a different type, use a bronze gear for the cam sensor, and a few other things. Oh yeah, new rod and main bearings, HOPEFULLY can keep the cam bearings but will have to check them. Oh well a couple of weeks of work and I've have it done. Hopefully we'll see some low to mid 11's out of it which isn't too bad for a Big Black 3600 lbs V6 sled with Air conditioning.

Well I'd better get back down stairs and continue to label wires that go EVERYWHERE...

See ya,

[RICK LAKE]

Hi Craig. If you come to R&G this year, And you want a place to sleep, you can have the other bed. One thing I should tell you I SNORE BAD, but the room is Free. We can pick you up at St. Lious Airport. the day before. I do not have a Dig. camera to put pictures on the web with. The crank is Calli crank The trip would be worth it to see Dave's Salkowski cobra with the 58MM Webers. The way that car runs when all the bugs are fixed will be 9.0's in the 1/4 mile and 155+ on the road course of the track. Daves car is a work in process. He built it in 83-85 and is all most perfect Only kidding Dave. It was in Kit Car Mag, you have to see it up close to know what I am talking about. I want to go down under, but only get 2 weeks vacation and R&G is all I work for each year. If you want to come let me know. Bob can have fun with you and that justa6 cobra. (yeah right) Talk to you soon. Give us more power BOB. Rick Lake