Still Frickin Hot - Update

[Double Venom]

Watched this with great interest, couldn't wait to throw in my 2-cents in, but thought that the timing guru's hit it right on the head....and I still think they have.

Here goes a simple but time consuming test.

remove plus battery cable first please
Get a helper
Pull #1 plug
Pull the valve cover off - over #1

Place thumb or finger over plug hole and have your assistant manually rotate the crank until you can feel compression building up. (There will be no mistakeing it)

Then, I use a long thin blade screwdriver, (I know much more techy tools can be used) slide it carefully in to the cylinder until contact with the piston. Have your assistant, - I use 1/2 drive for this, rotate the engine over while you hold onto the screwdriver shaft between your fingers.

Once both #1 valves are totally up, you should also have felt the screwdriver reach it's maximum height. You can rock the motor back and forth a little and pretty much feel where TDC is with the screwdriver.

Now pull the dist. cap. Where is it pointing? Check you harmonic balancer, is it in line with the pointer?

OK, if you know by feeling that you have #1 piston at TDC and either one of your #1 valves are the least bit down, then you have jumped a tooth on the timing belt. (Not likely and make sure your #1 is on a compression stroke-not intake or exhaust)

If the rotor is not within, 1/4" or less of pointing at #1, simply pull and reset the dist.

If the balancer has spun, safest thing is to replace.

In my honest and humble opinion it HAS to be timing. Pure and simple. I can't believe any street engine will even start with your inicated timing, let alone start.

Good luck...we'll be watching.

Ok...back to my rock

DV

PS I know my instructions are sometimes clear as mud. Don't hesitate to ask for clarification if you decide to go this route!

[Frank Coppola]

...maybe we should post a poll on what the answer is. This thread is so addicting. I am routing for you Clois!

My vote is that the timing is in the wrong order.

DV,

Your instructions were clear to me, but that doesn't say much.

[Double Venom]

Just a thought. Being the first to admit, I am not a 428 guru by any means, but... If... I remember right, wasn't the 428 used a lot in the boat industry's?

By chance does he have a boat engine? (Not that uncommon)
But, Boat engines run a complete different firing order!
Just another thought.
DV

[CobraEd]

And it could be one of those reverse rotation engines that went next to a regular rotation engine in a twin engine boat!!

Clois, does the car have 4 or 5 reverse gears and only one forward gear??

Sorry, . . . I had to say it. Its only 8:00 and I have not had my coffee yet

Your pal
Ed

[Clois Harlan]

Double V, Frank,ERA,Chopper, et al,

All your advise is greatly appreciated and Saturday I will begin the timing issue. All your instructions are very clear to me in fact the instructions to find TDC is exactly how I set my distributor up.

I didn't build the engine (I wish I had). But I intend to start with the cam and timing chain and degree everything. I have a new chain, cam, adjustable rockers, and gaskets so this part of the exam should be a lot easier than trying to find nuggets on a chicken. I love that comercial. Hopefully, I can have most of Saturday without interruptions to complete everything. we have talked about on this thread.

I really appreciate everyones input, it is so easy to forget the simple things when you have a problem (challenge). I know the answer maybe a combination of small things that alone may go undetected or by theirselfs only be a nuisance.

[Wayne Maybury]

I am not trying to muddy the waters here and I do agree that it appears that something is not Kosher with the timing but, it has been stated that there is very little circulation of coolant and that has nothing to do with timing.

Wayne

[CobraEd]

Clois, I would get a top-of-the-line thermostat, not just a generic one. This is the one I use, check it out:

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...422&prmenbr=76

[Toivo]

When the engine temp goes up to 220, have you tried turning on your defrosters to see if hot air comes out? Could be another indicator of whether coolant is circulating. Also a good way to cool things down if it is overheating.

[Frank Coppola]

I thought Clois just couldn't SEE the flow in the expansion tank. The baffle in them makes it tough to see. Easiest way is to see how fast the upper hose, rad, and lower hose get hot in relationship to the motor temp.

My vote is still the timing.

[Bob In Ct]

Hey Clois:
It was mentioned earlier by I forget who, but is there any chance that you have one of those Ford marine blocks that turned in the opposite direction from the norm? If so, is there any chance that your water pump is spinning in reverse? If this were the case the thermostat would never open for more than a few seconds before the cold coolant coming in would make it close again.

Just a thought,

Bob

[Alex Evonosky]

Sorry I didn't read all the posts on overheating. If someone has already mentioned this i'm sorry.

Look at the bottom radiator hose, see if it is sucked closed or restricted. Some hoses have a coil wire inside to prevent this
and some don't.
Just my .02 worth of ideas without actually seeing.

Alex

[Clois Harlan]

When I pulled the water pump off again this time I found that the RTV sealant that I had used to assemble the gaskets had squished out so much that my flow was restricted to the size of a quarter. I took off the back of the water pump and checked the impeller to make sure there was not other obstructions and it was ok. Timing chain was in perfect alignment. I replaced the thermostat twice the first one I put in I got a little out of alignment and bent it during assembly. I can actually watch my temp come up to about 180 - 190 and then drop back down. Even though my engine is running really rough for some other reason I don't seem to be overheating.

My spark plugs were fouled because of all the black carbon build up. So I replaced them and ran my timing back to about 8 degrees and leaned out my carb a little. Misses very badly but my plug wires are all in order and at TDC my distributor was absoultely firing on #1 plug. I will replace my Holley 750 carb with another one I have and see how it runs then. The timing is a real question because if I set my timing between 6 and 12 degrees the thing runs like sh_t. If I advance the timing to 15 or 20 degrees it runs great. Oh yea I was getting a false reading from my timing mark, my pointer had lost a screw and moved about a quarter of an inch.

Now that I fixed my pointer, had my harmonic checked, if I set my timing at about 12 degrees it runs much better but I am still fouling plugs. But, the good news is I think I may have a handle on the temperature. I will know more when I get back in town next Sunday. Got to take care of my CFO--going skiing this week.

I raised another issue about my upper end oiling and that problem was dirty and plugged rocker arm rails. I took them apart and clean the rails, rockers. and stands very well with engine cleaning brushes and the purple degreaser and cleaner and now my oiling is so much better. Squirts oil like crazy. The rocker arms had so much sludge and crud in them there was no way they were ever going to work correctly.

Thanks for everyones help. When I get back I will have these problems resolved (even if I have to replace my cam).

[Double Venom]

Fantastic!

I think you've got it Vern! Now let the battles begin... DUMP that frickin' Holley! Slap on an Eldlebrock # 350-1413 preformer, or 350-1400 (600 cfm which is probably more than enough), or the 750, part # 350-1411.

All have electric chokes, and I guaaaaarantee you, you will be happy. Bolt it on and run it.

I used to love holley's as much as anyone, but tens years of going through "H" with them we gave up!

Trust me, you'll love it!

DV