Shifting Difficulties AKA Grinding gears..

Denny S. · #1 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 02:43 PM

My Contemporary has a Mcleod hydraulic throw out and a toploader. I'm not familiar with the workings of either. Is it a toploader thing to have to go to second at a stop to get to first.
If you stop and go to neutral in order to get first I need to get second first . THis sounds like an Abbott & Costello thing. And quite often I need to double clutch to get reverse. Sometimes I have to double clutch to get any gear from a stop. THrottle blipping will get me downshifts. I haven't bled the clutch.. Where should I start with this dilemma? THe car has only 1000 miles on it 750 of which I believe were just kinda puttering around. THe last 250 since I got it have been shall we say a little harder..

niles · #2 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 04:13 PM

I'm suprise no one has replied.
I'm not a top loader expert; but trannie are trannies.
Sound like you not fully releasing; start by bleeding. You should be able to push car with engine off, in gear and clutch depressed.

If not, then look into adjusting some of free play out of the TOB. You always want just a bit of play so the TO does'nt drag and always be loaded and spinning with the clutch.
You might want to attempt to measure the TOB throw to see if it's in specs. If the throw is low, you can rectify by larger dia MC
gn

Bob Putnam · #3 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 04:13 PM

What do you mean by "double clutch"?

Once the car is in gear, how far must you release the pedal before the car starts to roll?

If you try to get it into reverse after putting it in another gear first, do you still get some gear clash?

Jim Weatherall · #4 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 04:25 PM

I recently had to replace the seal on my hydraulic throwout bearing and I have not gotten it completely bled and working right yet. It really sounds like your throwout bearing is not completely releasing the clutch. The toploader will shift like a dream otherwise.

Two things to check are pedal stroke and air bled out of the system. A correctly installed hydraulic throwout bearing will have a pedal stop to prevent over extending the bearing. So be sure it is completely bled and if you have a pedal stop, can you adjust it to get more release.

Test with the car in gear, engine off, on a slope or with someone giving you a little shove and see if pushing the clutch will let the car roll.

Jeff Frigo · #5 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 05:12 PM

If you are able to downshift into other gears, you have a syncro. problem.

Denny S. · #6 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 05:23 PM

If I push in the clutch twice I can usually get reverse with no clashing. THe clutch starts to take up after what seems to be a normal distance from the floor. My pedals are floor mounted. I seem to remember that the former owner said it was a Hurst
shifter. I'm thinking that the shifter may need some adjustment also and the clutch bled.

Jeff Frigo · #7 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 05:30 PM

It's the syncros.

Bob Putnam · #8 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 05:34 PM

Does the first push of the clutch feel spongy or easier than the second?

Jeff Frigo · #9 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 05:37 PM

It's the syncro's !!!

justa6 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 05:43 PM

Denny,

The hydraulic throwout bearing is not fully releasing. When you installed it Mcloud has a VERY good set of instructions. There is a setting that must be done on the bearing. ie a certain clearance must be between the bearing and the clutch. As I remember its around .125" and its important. If its off when you push the clutch in the bearing pushed the pressure plate "fingers" but apparently not enough. So the disc keeps rotating as does the input shaft on the trans. The proof of this is your problem with reverse. Now IT COULD ALSO be that you need to bleed the clutch as with air in the lines you won't get the full release either. I know nada about the toploader but it can't be the sycros or shift linkage, IMO...Call "Red" at Mcloud and he can help you.

Regards,

Jeff Frigo · #11 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 05:58 PM

Boys:

Grinding gears has little to do with clutch release. What you are describing is a classic case of syncr. problems. I have been there many times with many different transmissions.

When was the last time the syncros were replaced?

Tell me when you finally come to the same conclusion. SMILE:

niles · #12 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 06:07 PM

Jeff:

Cool it
gn

Jeff Frigo · #13 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 06:09 PM

Niles:

Learn how to diagnose trans. problems.

Jim Weatherall · #14 (**permalink**) 02-26-2002, 07:23 PM

Jeff,
There is NO question that my clutch is not releasing completely, and it causes the gears to grind because the input shaft is still spinning. Syncros can not do their job while the input is being driven. I have a brand new toploader built by the best in the business. There is nothing wrong with my syncros.

Denny S. · #15 (**permalink**) 02-27-2002, 06:55 AM

Now that you mention it Bob, The second push does feel stiffer
than the first. I'm leaning towards an air problem ..

justa6 · #16 (**permalink**) 02-27-2002, 07:31 AM

I'm sorry you disagree but the proof is Reverse has no syncros. I don't know squat about a toploader which may or may not have a 1st gear syncro. But reverse doesn't in any trans. If it grinds going into reverse its the clutch...

Regards,

David Kee · #17 (**permalink**) 02-27-2002, 10:26 AM

Reverse is in not synchronized guys. If you are grinding reverse either the clutch is not fully released or the bellhousing is way out of alignment. If the clutch does not release completely it will grind almost every gear.

ERA535 · #18 (**permalink**) 02-27-2002, 10:40 AM

FYI- there are some transmissions out there with synchros for reverse. I think it is Porsche?

justa6 · #19 (**permalink**) 02-27-2002, 12:00 PM

If the Germans put a synchonizer on a single reverse gear then
they are either dumb or like to shift into reverse while rolling backwards (down a hill?). Next time I have a layover in Frankfurt I'll check with the dealer down the street from the hotel.

I doubt that they have it in any of their cars but I really don't care about them either way. Other than to blow their 6's away with my 6. Especially their Turbo's.

Regards,

Bob Putnam · #20 (**permalink**) 02-27-2002, 12:23 PM

Denny,

When you bleed the system, make sure that the upper hose (that has the bleeder fitting) is slanted up all the way toward the bleeder. If there's air at the junction of the slave and the hose, it'll tend to draw air back in.